Posted on 06/05/2008 3:57:58 PM PDT by LeGrande
This case has fallen apart completely. The only real success that can be pointed to is a single 16 year old removed from her sicko abuser.
were you over 18 at the time of the raid? yes
Were you held against your will? yes
Did you give texas rangers/cps proof of your age? yes
Their sexual beliefs or lifestyle will not be a part of the suit and therefore not admissible.
They can process, tag, classify, photograph, catalog and prioritize all they like. It will not change the facts of what they did to obtain that (alleged) evidence.
The County Sheriff stood at the gate of the Ranch with CPS and Texas Rangers knowing the warrants were incorrect and said nothing. He did not lift a finger or say a word to attempt to stop the raid until they knew what was really going on. At that point law enforcement had been advised and had verified that the only person suspected of posing an immediate risk to children was not located at the ranch which was the basis for the warrants. That destroys the good faith argument requirement to admit evidence obtained from a search performed under an incorrect warrant.
Texas Rangers and CPS entered the facility under those warrants on the rather preposterous story that the calls were coming from the ranch. The very first thing they would have done was run the name Dale Barlow in NCIC and found out on May 30 that he was living two states away. Yet they went to the judge and swore off on a warrant that was based on him and named him as the primary suspect. With such a reasonable doubt they had a duty to tell the judge Dale Barlow did not appear to live at the ranch as the non-existent "Sarah" claimed in the calls. They apparently did not do that. Once again this prior knowledge by law enforcement which had been advised and verified by the Federal Government NCIC Database that the only person suspected of posing an immediate risk to children was not located at the ranch destroys the good faith argument requirement to admit evidence obtained from a search performed under an incorrect warrant.
So, now you have the Judge's order being overturned and under orders from two Superior Courts to return the children and she being uncooperative about it and attempts to place unreasonable restrictions on the return of the children thus indicating poor judgment and perhaps even an agenda.
Combine that with the facts of conflicting information being ignored in order to obtain the warrants in the first place.
Add in the fact that the judge that signed off on the warrant is the same judge that ordered the detention of the women and children which will be argued as an indication of agenda-driven behavior.
This entire debacle was carried out by just three key people. That would be Judge Walther, Texas Ranger Brooks Long, and Newbridge Family Shelter (non-CPS) Flora Jessop. This is the very same Flora Jessop that informed reporters (for the first time) over a week after the raid that “it was common knowledge” that “Sarah Barlow was married to a man in his thirties.” It is very clear that there is no “Sarah” that made cell phone calls from the ranch and the information from Flora Jessop is at the very least on it’s face a partial lie.
A good defense lawyer(s) will (and with good cause) have the evidence tossed based on those very reasons. Or at least we ALL damn well better hope so as if it is allowed in a criminal proceeding to use evidence gathered under a warrant based upon such outrageous circumstance then the cops and judges have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to obey any part of the law, they merely need to be sure their stories are at least "sort of similar" when they go after someone else they don’t like.
If it gets into the court system them all the speculating back and forth will end. Until then it is only that, speculation as to what the courts will rule.
I do hope it gets into the courts, both criminal and civil, as I’d like for this sect to be totally exposed and the state, CPS to be exposed for their apparent disregard for rights. Transparency never hurts.
This case has fallen apart completely.
Time will tell if has fallen apart or not. In any case I hope both criminal and civil actions are persued in the courts so we can get under oath with threat of prejury a complete look at the FLDS and the CPS, state actions. Then and only then will we have transparency into what really took place and what the FLDS really does.
The fundamental question in the courts is how much evidence is enough. There are really no issues other than that.
The trial judge still has her head.
The fundamental question in the courts is how much evidence is enough. There are really no issues other than that.
The trial judge still has her head.
Common name among that group.
Yes they are but with the now lacking requirement of "immediate danger" and Judge Walther having tipped her hand as to allowing an agenda to drive her decisions rather than performing unbiased decision making and about a a zillion eyes watching what they are doing CPS has been reigned in a bit.
As for any criminal proceedings, if they have a brain in their head the will drop all of the existing evidence in the dumpster and start over.
Why should they do that? The TSC allowed seizure of evidence to take place. Seems to me that with so much court backing, CPS is preparing itself to take names and kick some tail!
The TSC allowed seizure of evidence to take place.
I don’t think that was before the TSC but rather the criteria for taking the children into temporary custody absent a court order.
The Texas Supreme Court only ruled in the context of the Appeals Court order to return the kids based upon the lack of any evidence of "immediate danger" to the children. That was the only issue being ruled upon. That has nothing to do with any future attempt to utilize any gathered evidence in a criminal proceeding as that is a totally separate issue.
After getting caught with their wicks in the breeze by order of two separate Superior Courts to undo what they had done and their flimsy attempts to "justify" what they had done with a series of lame and totally false acusations CPS has set itself up to have every single future attempt to revoke custody of the kids from their parents laughed out of court. CPS will not be "kicking some tail" in this issue and might not be in many future issues as a direct result of this fiasco.
I really think they intended to use the children as leverage- thinking once they took the children everyone would crumble and start tell tales against each other and producing evidence. I talked today to a friend of mine that used to work for CPS here in NM and she told me flat out she quit and started working in the section that worked with elderly assistance because CPS was doing things far beyond what was intended when they were given power to help children. She also thinks the children were all taken for leverage to find out what was going on.
I could be very wrong and I hope I am wrong- because CPS does have a lot of power- which they are supposed to use if a child is in immediate danger. I don’t want them using their awesome power for other purposes. I don’t see anyway that anyone thought ALL of the children were in immediate danger- so I wonder.
I do think CPS believed the call was real- and whether or not they thought it was real they have to investigate that sort of thing anyway. I do think the sheriff knew or should have known the call was a hoax before going in- he spoke to the man named in the warrant and LEO does have the means to verify such things if he didn’t believe that was the man he spoke to- as he claims now. The call was traced after the fact and could have been traced before all the children were removed. The disputed underage mothers that turned out to be adults- their ID could have been verified sooner too- I know for a fact birth certificates and drivers licenses can be verified in a matter of hours if LEO needs it done quickly.
I would not doubt that at all.
The end justifies the means when you have already decided someone is guilty.
The earlier claim was that the warrants for seizing documents had already been ruled invalid.
I merely pointed out that the TSC did nothing about that matter.
And, you agree.
BTW, be sure to let everyone here know when you appear in a court regarding any of this F(lds) stuff. Maybe we can catch the film on the news.
I know that sounds terribly prmitive, but it appears to be the truth.
As far as driver's licenses are concerned, they may be purchased. Our own DMV in Virginia found itself having issued numerous bad drivers licenses to the 9/11 hijackers.
Unless a driver's license conforms to the new federal standards it doesn't mean a thing, and probably won't even let you in the front door at the post office.
What was the probable cause for obtaining the warrants given that the Texas Supreme Court has decided that insufficient cause existed to take any of the children?
It seems to me that you are looking at this situation backwards.
It's irrelevant that some types of identification are superior to others.
What is relevant in this case is that the adult women who were unjustifiably held as minors appear to have presented to the authorities ALL THE IDENTIFICATION THAT EXISTED FOR THEM. It was the burden of CPS to recognize valid identification when it is presented.
If you propose that the identification supplied was insufficient, then what was expected from such a woman to get herself released? She is out of options. How long should CPS be permitted to hold a woman who has submitted to them all the identification information on her that exists?
If you propose that the identification supplied WAS sufficient, then how long should CPS be permitted to hold a person who has presented sufficient identification?
Did the "clear admission" include any crimes other than the one for which Jeffs has been convicted?
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