Chasm dividing Americans over birth certificate widens

WND ^ | November 28, 2008

[ckilmer]

The chasm between those who want President-elect Barack Obama to produce his birth certificate to verify his eligibility to hold the nation's highest office and those who simply support the Democrat is widening.

"The Constitution means what we today decide it means," opined one participant on a new WND forum that offers readers an opportunity to express their opinion on the birth certificate dispute.

[Windflier]

When you can't face reality and deal with it from there your head is up your backside. I hate the fact Obama ever got elected. But I won't let anyone pump sunshine up my skirt.

Then stop whining and get in fighting spirit. You're not doing anyone any favors by advocating for apathy.

So the situation's bad. What are you going to do about it? Convince us all to lie down and give up? I, for one, refuse to submit to that invitation.

"Red-blooded" indeed. Find 'em, friend.

[Sharrukin]

It’s just that so many people are not taking this seriously and those who do, like those on FreeRepublic don’t seem to understand how utterly horrific this could get. That SOB may only be Carter born again, but if he is what his past associations suggest he is a lot of people could die.

This isn’t the first time this sort of thing has happened and if we really want to stop it, we had better face up to how ugly it could get. Liberals are true believers in a way that many conservatives are not. Conservatives THINK. Liberals feel and that gives them a unity and purpose that conservatives often lack.

Dismissing Obama as a lightweight or his idiot looking supporters as pushovers is an easy way to get sucker-punched when things go south.

[thecodont]

As much as I despise Obama, I have to admire his audacity. He knows, has known for years that he his not eligible for the Presidency, but has gambled everything that he can hold people off until he actually takes office, at which time the “natural born” requirement becomes a dead letter.

I beg to differ.

I admire audacity when it is the servant of the worthwhile.

If he isn't a "natural born citizen" according to Article 2 of our Constitution, then this narcissist is trying to tear apart the fabric of our nation with his little "experiment." I don't admire that in the least.

Whatever his "natural born" status, he isn't ACTING like a "natural born" citizen, with his trips abroad to campaign in other countries (Kenya, Germany), declaring himself a "citizen of the world", associating with America-hating people (Rev. Wright, Ayers) etc. He isn't acting like someone who is proud of his country and loves his country.

Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis, Democrat candidate for President in 1988, was the son of Greek immigrants. The "natural born citizen" issue was never a part of his campaign. He did, however, campaign as a fervently patriotic American, as I recall. He did not define himself as a Greek. He defined himself as an American first. Contrast that with Obama.

[Windflier]

They faced reality and acted accordingly.

Exactly.

So stand with us, would ya?

[blackbart.223]

What is happening is a travesty. On a lighter note the coyotes out here are priming up. Got the 22-250 tuned in. Good hunting.

Bart.

[wistful]

“I have probably been in the fight longer than you have been alive.”

Yeah well I’d say that was probably pretty likely seeing as how we’re so far down the damn tube. Like losing don’t you.

[blackbart.223]

"So stand with us, would ya?"

Jesus! I've never been anywere else. Pay closer attention. It would suit you better.

[Sharrukin]

Oh for Christ sake! Facing reality and not underestimating what you are facing isn’t cowardice.

[wistful]

There’s no reason whatsoever to be calling anyone a coward here. Defeatist is the word.

[omniscient]

I am constantly seeing these messiah birth posts, only to be let down when I realize it's just another futile WND article. Which means this continues to be buried, and the general public continues to be oblivious.

This will only get traction if it is made an issue in the MSM. And the only circumstance in which they will acknowledge this is if Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc. begin to harp on this on a daily basis. These guys have to stop worrying about Fairness Doctrine and pick up the ball. Or are they just afraid of being made to look like fools in case B.Hussein O. actually comes up with proper documentation? As it stands, they are starting to lose credibility by ignoring this elephant. And worse yet, they are enabling Hussein's fraud, since MSM thinks if talk radio is ignoring this, they can too.

[blackbart.223]

"Yeah well I’d say that was probably pretty likely seeing as how we’re so far down the damn tube. Like losing don’t you."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I've been in the fight because I don't like to lose. Dry behind your ears and figure it out.

Bart.

[Sharrukin]

I was saying that some one WASN’T a coward for facing reality.

[blackbart.223]

"Oh for Christ sake! Facing reality and not underestimating what you are facing isn’t cowardice."

You don't defeat any enemy with pipe dreams. I doubt this issue will ever get to The Supreme Court. I pray I'm wrong.

Bart.

[Lilpug15]

Awww - Don’t be a Debbie Downer :(

No matter what, there are many of us who are suspicious and as long as we try to get the word out, watch this guy, and remain active and vigilant there is still a lot we can do BC issue or not!

[Windflier]

You don't win a fight until you understand the enemy. In this case it is ignorance. How do you defeat years of it?

I know one thing, and that is, the type of people who've sold out their core principles to support an empty charlatan like Obama only understand one thing, and that is overwhelming force.

We cannot "win over" people such as these. There is no appealing to their reason. They will not accept facts, or any logic which is in opposition to their belief in their Chosen One. We have already seen that approaching them with intelligence is pointless.

No, they must be forced to understanding, sad as that is to say. Hopefully, that will be accomplished through force of the courts, or of the Congress. If not, then The Founders left us with one final device, which is overt resistance.

I, for one, do not believe that the insurgents amongst us have the stomach for a real armed struggle, nor do I think they have any inkling of the magnitude of resistance they're foolishly priming.

As many here have said, "keep your powder dry."

[abenaki]

Your post is very informative. I have been sitting here trying to figure out why the Big3 on talk radio have not said one word on this issue. Of course they are afraid of the “fairness doctrine”. Even Corsi seems to have dropped the issue.

[Windflier]

I understand the need for optimism but the courts have consistently thrown out these cases and I suspect they will do so again. The constitution is being ignored, the laws are being ignored, campaign finance laws are being selectively applied, election day fraud is now unremarkable. The list goes on.

You say you "understand the need for optimism, but..."

What do you propose to do about it?

[blackbart.223]

"As many here have said, "keep your powder dry."

I have probably said that more than anyone. But I also look at things from a realistic view point. Both go hand and and hand.

[Sharrukin]

I, for one, do not believe that the insurgents amongst us have the stomach for a real armed struggle, nor do I think they have any inkling of the magnitude of resistance they’re foolishly priming.

---

I think they will be far more dangerous than you imagine. If history is anything to judge by, they always are. They come in packs and the RINO will not stand by you. Well this says it better than I can...

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2008/11/wanted-men-and-women-of-courage.html

[fightinJAG]

It’s not clear that simply producing the BC answers the questions. Some of the constitutional/legal questions that apparently are not settled:

1. In terms of eligibility to serve as President, is there a distinction between citizenship based on birthplace and citizenship based on descent?

2. If so, which means of attaining citizenship make one eligible to serve as President?

3. Under the laws in effect at the time, what is the effect on the “natural born” status of the child when either father or mother is a non-U.S. citizen?

4. What is the effect on a child’s “natural born citizen” status if, having attained citizenship by (1) birthplace or (2) descent, subsequently that child is adopted by the citizen of a different nation and made a citizen of his adoptive father’s land?

5. If there are factual ambiguities relevant to an individual’s “natural born citizen” status, what is the standard of proof that applies to eligiblity to serve as President?

6. What is the result/procedure if the evidence is insufficient to conclude an individual who is or may be the President-elect is a “natural born citizen”?

7. If a child’s parent’s foreign citizenship, under the laws of that nation, descends to the child at birth, what effect, if any, does that have on the child’s “natural born citizen” status? If it creates a disqualification that can be cured, what is the procedure/standard for curing it?

8. In this extremely important and unusual circumstance (verifying a President-elect’s qualification to serve as president), on what grounds can the presumption of regularity of an official document (such as a BC) be challenged, and who has standing to do so? Does the nature of the potential harm, and the infrequency in which fact patterns raise the issue, militate for a more lenient standard for stating a claim?