Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican

Times Online ^ | 04/05/2009 | Richard Owen

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Like everything else worth saving in this world, it’ll wind up in the filthy hands of the islamists, eventually.

[Swordmaker]

of course carbon-dating is more conclusive then actual documentation...

Except when the Carbon Dating that was done in 1988 has been conclusive proved—through both chemical, statistical, and physical analysis published in peer-reviewed journals and independently confirmed—to have been done on samples taken from a PATCHED area of the Shroud where the material is MIXTURE of original Linen and 16th Century Cotton added to the original material to repair damage.

The percentage of polluting Cotton varied between 40% and 60% of the tested sample, accounting for the previously inexplicable statistical variation in the 1988 test results that far exceeded—a spread of over 155 years—the expectations of the degree of confidence had the sub-samples all clipped from the same master sample been homogenous. Once it was found they were NOT homogenous, and not exemplar of the main body of the Shroud, the Carbon Dating done in 1988 was falsified.

[mad_as_he$$]

Horsehockeys.

[Always Right]

I was being facetious.

[NTHockey]

It didn’t exist until 33 AD and was in Constitnople until 1204.

[fatima]

Wonder if the church knows.

[aruanan]

First century is 0-99 not 100-199; example, 19th century is 1800-1899, 20th century 1900-1999 and so on.

There is no year 0. The first year of the first 100 years was year 1, not year 0. The first century's years are 1 through 100. The second century begins at the beginning of the first year of the second century 101, and so on. Thought you would have learned this stuff at the turn of the Third Millennium which took place on January 1, 2001, the first year of the new millennium.

[nufsed]

Unresponsive to my question. Some detail about how it got to Constantnople in 33 and how you know it was there for nearly 1200 years.

[Salamander]

Maybe he takes after his Father’s side of the family....:)

[BroJoeK]

"Funny, he's got the marks of a phylactery on his forehead. That looks distinctly Jewish."

Well, I learn a new word every day. Thanks.

Phylactery: "Judaism. Either of two small leather boxes, each containing strips of parchment inscribed with quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures, one of which is strapped to the forehead and the other to the left arm; traditionally worn by Jewish men during morning worship, except on the Sabbath and holidays."

Wikipedia on Teffilin / phylacteries

Wikipedia quotes Old Testament verses and says ancient phylacteries were found at Qumran, so I'll take that as being plenty ancient enough.

Still, you'd suppose the New Testament would mention such a matter, especially as it carefully points out the dramatic crown of thorns, blood from which is said to appear on the Shroud of Turin.

[Young Werther]

Your off by a year! Your count is wrong! If you put 99 pennies in a jar and label it a dollar you miscouted!

This is why everyone wanted to celebrate the arrival of the new millenium on Jan 1, 2000 and they were off by a year.

BTAIM, one of the curiosities of the Shroud analysis was the discovery of particles of seeds in the weave of the cloth.

[WVNan]

Read Ian Wilson’s book and digest it.

[nufsed]

Could you please give a short summary of the answer to my brief specific question. I assume you read the book and know the facts of the situation.

[Focault's Pendulum]

Where was the shroud from 1-1204?

My ex mother in law had it.

[nufsed]

I guess no one here knows the information and I'm supposed to read some guy's book. The original replier to me made a statement and I asked him to support it. He could not.

Good bye folks. Have a good one.

[aruanan]

Still, you'd suppose the New Testament would mention such a matter, especially as it carefully points out the dramatic crown of thorns, blood from which is said to appear on the Shroud of Turin.

The phylactery was about as ordinary as anything for Jewish men during that time. I don't know why it would necessarily have been mentioned in connection with Jesus. He did, though, mention the practice of some to make their phylacteries really wide to be more noticeable to others.

[agere_contra]

from shroudstory.com

It is well established that a cloth with a purported image of Jesus existed in Edessa (now Urfa, Turkey) prior to 5th century CE. This was documented by Eusebius of Caesarea in the early 4th century. According to Eusebius (and this part of the record should be treated as legend for it has many such qualities) the cloth was brought to Edessa by the apostle Thomas or the disciple Thadeus (of the biblical 70).

What is reliable history is that in 544, a cloth with an image thought to be of Jesus was found concealed above a gate in the city walls of Edessa. That cloth was transferred to Constantinople on August 14, 944. At that time, it was described by Gregory Referendarius as a full-length burial cloth with an image of Jesus (purportedly) and bloodstains in the vicinity of a side wound.

Following the sacking of Constantinople in 1204, that cloth became the property of Othon de la Roche, the French Lord of Athens and Thebes (Athens was in French hands). He sent it to his castle home in the town of Besançon, France, likely in 1207. At Eastertide, it was removed from castle and displayed in the Besançon Cathedral. We don’t know when that practice started but it ended when the cathedral was destroyed by fire in March of 1349.

Any records that might have existed may have been burned in that fire as all church records were destroyed. In that same year, Geoffroy de Charny, a French knight married Jeanne de Vergy, a grand-niece of Othon de la Roche, and delivered the shroud (or a shroud) to the canons of Lirey, thereby creating the earliest extant record in Western Europe.

[nufsed]

Thank you. One has to suffer a lot of idiots to get to one scholar.

[JohnBovenmyer]

More support for the Shroud = the Mandylion. It will take more positive evidence overturning the carbon dating, beyond the plausible theories proposed to explain that to quiet many of the skeptics.. However, it will never be 100% proven by the dictates of science; God wants this belief to be by faith and that requires it to be beyond scientific proof.

[Mercat]

Tonight on Discover channel is a documentary on that topic.. 6 in my time zone.