Skip to comments.Putting down the mutiny
Posted on 04/08/2009 7:27:54 AM PDT by Graybeard58
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is warning Republicans and Democrats of a possible third-party mutiny in 2012 because of all the socialism being advanced by the White House and Congress.
Who's he kidding? The major political parties have a death grip on the electoral process, but for insurance, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Rep. John Larson, D-1st District (Ct), have submitted bills to create a full-blown, taxpayer-funded, campaign-finance machine created for and controlled by the incumbents.
Their proposals in principle are identical to the one Connecticut lawmakers enacted that has made it toughest on third-party candidates to qualify for campaign grants.
So there will be no mutiny because incumbents refuse to share their bounty.
Ping to a Republican-American Editorial.
If you want on or off this list, let me know.
It’s easier to change the establishment from the inside, versus the outside. It doesn’t mean that it isn’t difficult, however.
If there is to be an effective uprising, my guess is that it will come from within the GOP. Certainly there is a struggle for control of the Republican Party — but, our best hope is winning that struggle.
Third Party candidates simply won’t be taken seriously enough. They may play spoiler — but I doubt they’re contenders.
BHO & the Dems will do everything they can to promote a third party bid from the right. This will sap the strength of any potential opposition and cement BHO’s re-election.
BHO & the Dems will do everything they can to promote a third party bid from the right. This will sap the strength of any potential opposition and cement BHO’s re-election.
“a possible third-party mutiny in 2012”
could be the best thing ever happens!
I’d love to see a viable 3rd party emerge as well, but I feel it has to start at the local level and build a solid foundation first. Perot, Nader, Barr, etc...have been joke campaigns, with no realistic shot at even making a marginal splash in the polls.
Imagine a new conservative party that could get a dozen or so House seats and 2-3 in the Senate. Certainly not enough to legislate independently, but more than enough to exert pressure on the Republicans to toe the line, and the party will grow and grow from there.
This trend will lead (or already has led) directly to a socialist government without the resources or public mindshare to carry out most of its grand schemes. It may finally end when a substantial body of younger voters finally begin to see the socialists instead of the irrelevant GOP as the "old dudes who caused the problems" - probably ten or twelve years from now.
Or the GOP could do something really insane and run with conservatives.
“Or the GOP could do something really insane and run with conservatives.”
Nah. That would never enter their teeny little brains. They read the mainstream media and know that conservatives are evil, nasty, racist people whom they would never want to be associated with.
Right there. The major problem is a third party sucks votes from the Republican party since both parties relies on conservative issues. The Republican party needs a clean sweep of RINO's and needs to establish a clear and clean "contract for America" attitude and it might just crack a little of the huge King Obama machine.
Conservative districts may well get a "Conservative Party," going, and even slip in a candidate or two. But conservatives will never get in on the RINO-DEMO incumbent action, i.e., never be able to bring home the bacon to their constituents (as Crook Murtha and Senile KKK Krook Byrd consistently do, which gets them re-elected). Neither will they be present in sufficient number to even slow down the statist juggernaut.
The inherent weakness in Conservatism is that it requires economically stable, politically literate, and somewhat sophisticated voters. This political commodity, upon which good government of a republic depends, is in ever-diminishing supply. As present senior generations die off, and the new Latino demographic component approaches 100 million, the republic as you know it will change into something else over the rest of this century.
That's the "Change" BHO, Jr. is talking about. "Constitution," you say? Hmmm?
If the GOP thinks they can run on fear of Obama, they may as well give up now because they’ve already lost.
Not to sound conspiratorial but it sure looks to me like they don’t intend to win again. Where are the big names demanding real investigations of ACORN? Where are the big names fighting the funding or ACORN while cutting military?
We're also strapped w/ parasitic citizens that believe they are owed other peoples money.
Its depressing and its also similar to what destroyed the Roman Republic.
I can’t go against Gingrich because he is a good solid conservative! His talk of a GOP split is scary and smacks of something easier than getting down to the hard work of fixing what is wrong. There is no doubt that the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence are in danger...and that is what is important.
The GOP stuck us with Obama and the rats with their deliberate denigration of conservative candidates.
I now have a socialist (not to mention criminal) congressman because the GOP withdrew party money late in his campaign. They called him a lost cause and he ended up losing by a whole 2%. They were never happy with him anyway because he defeated one of their RINOs for the seat in the first place.
spoil what? the GOP hasn't done anything good for us for years. It's already spoiled. It so spoiled it stinks! The GOP has thrown us all under the bus. We need to start over from scratch. The GOP and the RATS are one and the same. They're just pretending they have differences. Just look at the number of RINO's. It's growing not shrinking. Staying in bed with the GOP is a bad idea. We have no choice but to take a chance. It may be our last chance. We have nothing to lose anymore. Even if a third party doesn't win, (and it won't) it may do better than Perot did. And cause some on the hill to squirm and worry about their future viability. I'm going for it because we're getting nowhere with the GOP. Well i take that back, we're getting somewhere. The same somewhere the RATS are going.
The only way such a rebellion could succeed is with Limbaugh as a key player in it, along with some big names from talk radio, the GOP, and the conservative intelligensia.
You said — could be the best thing ever happens!
The only problem is that the “price to pay” for doing it, will be to have the Democrats winning elections for many years afterwards, while it takes time to build up the other party.
And, as long as it remains that the voters are split between Republicans and the other new party — the Democrats will continue winning elections.
That’s the price to pay for doing that. So, people just have to “buckle down” and do it and be prepared for about 20 years of Democrats winning elections, while the other new Party builds up and destroys the Republican Party (and the new Party won’t be capable of winning elections until it does destroy the Republicans...).
Yep, it’s definitely a *price to pay* for forming a third party... but if that’s what people want — then they have to be prepared for about 20 years of the Democrats winning all the elections...
As long as people are satisfied with that outcome, while they build up the third party, then I guess it’s okay...
>>> They may play spoiler but I doubt theyre contenders.
>> spoil what? the GOP hasn’t done anything good for us for years. It’s already spoiled.
Good grief. Use of the word “spoiler” wasn’t a commentary on the GOP — it was a sports metaphor. You’ve never heard the term “playing spoiler”? It occurs when a team that is out of contention (usually the Cubs) defeats a contender in a game or two that makes no difference to the outcome of their season, but spoils the playoff hopes of the contender.
Thus, if a third party gets involved — they won’t win, but they may still affect the outcome. I didn’t even say precisely whom they would spoil it for — I simply said that the best a 3rd party can hope for is interference, not contention. Hardly a groundbreaking prediction (in fact, I believe it was EXACTLY the same prediction you made).
>> We need to start over from scratch.
Granted. I see no reason we cannot start over from within the GOP. Marginalizing conservatism will not help our situation. It may make conservatives feel better that their party is purely conservative ... but I see no particular honor in losing.
Ummmm, it looks like “teach the GOP a lesson” is what got us in this rapidly warming cook pot now, politics is often the “lesser of two evils”. Even the slimy little Maverick would be better than nobama. The old saying comes to mind “cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face”.
After 2 nobama terms nothing will be turned back for 50 years.
Great operational theory you have there! Unless of course its really OBAMAWORLD you prefer.
In its current status the GOP is almost dead in the water. Things can turn around with a GOOD conservative leader and the willingness to cut support to the damn RINOs. If none of this comes about, the 3rd party may be our only option, but I’ll join in only if its headed up with a GREAT CONSERVATIVE of national stature. Short of that, we are either stuck or decide its time to revisit 1776.
Third Parties usually cost the GOP the election.
so you say....
something tells me not to take the word of strangers....
What cost us this last election? and the election 2 years before that?
Republicans are not fighting for the backbone of this country - working American patriots who still believe in our sovreignty, the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, family, and most importantly, God. Where is the party who stands for that? I’ll join them and I’d bet money that a significant % of the Democrat party would too.
We’ve already lost Doc. And sure i understand what that sports metaphor means. But what were you applying it to?
And “Good Grief” yourself, Charlie Brown. But i do see a problem with sticking with the GOP.
You have a right to vote how you want. So do i. So let’s just let this one go. It’s not worth our time. You’re not gonna change my mind and i’m not gonna change yours. And frankly i don’t have the time today to get into this with you. Nor am i interested. Anyway, it will only lead to a useless string of exchanges that will accomplish nothing.
We’ve only “already lost” if we give up the fight. Knowingly and intentionally giving our votes to a non-contender is “giving up”.
We are in dark days, indeed. I understand the despair that is going through conservative circles. Some cling to despair like a badge of honor. Some believe hope or optimism are simply naive hallucinations. But, we’ve endured before, and we will endure again.
The Reagan revolution was preceded by the dark days of Carter. A Party that would nominate Sarah Palin as Vice-President cannot be totally lost. A Party that is home to Palin, Mark Sanford and Bobby Jindal gives reason to believe that there are better days ahead.
The dawn will come.
Well, then expect ZERO to be in power for 8 yrs. There will always be the party voters, who will not leave for a third party candidate. I’m not saying you are wrong, only that there is such party loyalty, right or wrong, that exists in USA...no really good candidate can win. I would love to vote for something better, but look at all the third parties who have ever run....they split the conservative vote, and not the democrat vote...
I am still hopeful. But only if we change the way we play the game. Otherwise we have already lost.
Maybe Palin, et al will join those of us who know the GOP is too corrupt to change.
There aren’t enough Palins or Jindals in the GOP to bring about change inside that party.
I hope you have a good day.
If my choice is Obama or Obama-lite ... I’ll go 3rd party. I’m not interested in sliding slowly into Socialism.
There are citizens who voted for O in 2008 that will be looking for a way to not vote for O in 2012. I don’t think they will turn to the badly-branded Republican party. I do think they’d be willing to turn to a 3rd party.
I don’t see a way for Republicans to re-brand themselves as the party of Reagan. I can’t even imagine it happening. I think the country is ready to throw ALL the bums out.
>> There arent enough Palins or Jindals in the GOP to bring about change inside that party.
It only took one Reagan.
>> I hope you have a good day.
Same to you.
It took one Reagan but that was 30 years ago. Things are much worse now and we’re falling fast.
Didn’t the ballot measure to change redistricting in California pass? What will change things are fewer “safe” districts.
We tend to gloss over the struggles of the past ... the things we’ve overcome to get here.
I’m not completely sure we’re in much worse shape than we were then. The GOP was saddled with the Nixon legacy of corruption, secrecy, and a decidedly liberal domestic agenda. We were in the depths of the Carter Administration ... recession, job losses, gas lines, hostage crisis, Cold War. We’d lost the last election because of a lackluster RINO nominee ... Gerald Ford. Democrats controlled everything. Republicans were a voiceless, impotent minority.
Reagan, a previously defeated candidate, emerged from the ash-heap.
I virtually always vote republican, but usually it is out of fear for how bad things would be under the demonrats whereas the republicans are a lesser evil who do many good things.
I'd rather not vote like that any more and won't if someone or a party rises up and gives me something to vote for rather than just voting against the dims again and again.
I feel your pain, my FRiend. Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois — we all seem to suffer the same infestation. Something in the water?
(At least he came out against defense cuts - as opposed to the lately failed GOP candidate.)
Thanks for the ping Graybeard.
Seems to me the Socialist/Democrats are stacking the deck with strategic moves intended to thwart the electoral process in America for many an election cycle to come.
Their arrogance and disrespect for the First Law of our land, the Constitution allows them to proceed without remorse.
Their arrogance and disrespect for the people of this land allows them to proceed without remorse.
Their legislations are dictates, and their rhetoric is condescension. There is no negotiating with tyranny.
There is the possibility they will cause their own “Let them eat cake” moment in history. For every action there is a reaction. Perhaps we shall see.
The longer they remain in power, time goes by, memories fade, and the survivalist in humanity becomes the focus. Whatever we do for ourselves today is what will be there for posterity.
We have to regard this moment in American history with the urgency the situation requires, and we must be extremely correct in what we do.
There are costs involved.
I sincerely believe the costs are too high to persue the course towards a third party.
Third party! There are between 17 and 19 forming right here on FRee Republic
You are advocating the Marxist strategy of making things worse so they make it better. Getting stuck with Obama and the Democrats in Congress now isn't the 'cure' for anything except prosperity, freedom, national sovereignty and strong traditonal values.
Destroying American in order to reform the GOP is about as smart as burning down your house because you dont like how the living room is painted.
Did those that refused to vote for mclame on principal think we got the better of the ONLY 2 potential situations? And now being prepared to continue letting the HNIC stay in office at least through two terms, do you now still think after 2016 America will remain recoverable? By then the socialists masters will have consolidated their grip and will honestly have no fear of any sustainable reversal BY ANY MEANS.
“The GOP stuck us with Obama and the rats with their deliberate denigration of conservative candidates.”
Most Republican officeholders ARE conservative.
Obama and the Democrats got elected by millions of brainwashed sheep-dipped liberals. It was over a BILLION in liberal special interest group money, campaign contributions and other funding that made it hard to compete. Dont blame the GOP for the fact that the other side outplayed us all.
It’s up to candidates and campaigns to win races and its whining to try to put responsibility elsewhere, especially on party orgs, who can only do so much (and not much in 2008 because RNC etc was tapped out). Where were all the whiners when conservative Republican Musgrave was in her re-election race? Did they help her, or did they act like welfare cases, doing nothing but expecting underfunded NRCC to bail them out?
THE GOP IS *US*. WE ARE THE GOP. IF WE HELP OUT, THE GOP IS HELPING. IF WE WHO ARE CONSERVATIVES DONT HELP CONSERVATIVES, WHO THE HECK ARE YOU EXPECTING TO HELP THEM? Sorry for shouting, but lets get real - you could just have accurately written:
We conservative Republicans stuck us with Obama and the rats with their deliberate denigration of Republican candidates, and non-help to conservative Republicans.
I ought to know. I tried helping a conservative Republican statehouse candidate. Few volunteers, no money ... not much at all. Very little was done. A solid conservative wouldnt help and was barely willing to bother voting.
CONSERVATIVES DIDNT CARE ENOUGH TO STOP OBAMA.
“I now have a socialist (not to mention criminal) congressman because the GOP withdrew party money late in his campaign. They called him a lost cause and he ended up losing by a whole 2%. They were never happy with him anyway because he defeated one of their RINOs for the seat in the first place.”
Win it back in 2010. Are in Andy Harris’ old seat? It sounds like that one. we should encourage Andy Harris to run again. He will win in 2010.
Neither do I, but there is a certain type of conservative romantic, especially among the neo-confederate types, who get a real KICK out of losing bigtime. It's clear that a lot of the moth-to-the-flame attraction for third parties comes from people who really would rather lose than ever bear the responsibility of winning, governing and building a different future. .... Must be watching too many re-runs of "Gone With the Wind" or something.
Correct. We will have to keep talking sense to these folks. While these splitters try to punish the GOP, the socialist Democrats are given a free hand to punish and destroy everything we cherish in America.
That party is the Republican Party. There are Republicans fighting for all those issues, and it is wrong to pretend they dont. They DO. The GOP won 55 million votes, about 55 million more than any 3rd party. If they didnt do exactly what you want, consider that they have 55 million others to cater to.
Ill join them and Id bet money that a significant % of the Democrat party would too.
The Democrat Obama stood for giveaways and ran against everything you mention, 100% opposed. The idea that there are millions of Democrats ready to sign up for conservatism ... well, go ahead, make my day - make it happen. (It wont).
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