Donaldson on This Week on JFK Assassination: I'd Like to Ask Castro 'Did You Do It?'

NewsBusters.org ^ | 04/19/2009 | Seton Motley

[Star Traveler]

Good ole fashioned political corruptness and going to jail seems mighty ordinary to me... and not so fantastic..., as far as the human condition goes and how politics works, actually...

[cynwoody]

And that was why Oswald was a “cool cucumber” in the interrogation at the Dallas Police, because he knew that the information would come out that would clear him.

When Oswald was picked up in the Texas Theater, it was for killing Officer Tippit, not President Kennedy. When they turned up the theater lights and confronted him, he cool as a cucumber declared, "Well, it is all over now". Then he attempted to shoot the arresting officer with his own gun, before finally being subdued and hauled off past the angry crowd which had gathered at the theater entrance.

There were plenty of eyewitnesses to Tippit's shooting. Oswald was up on Murder I, no matter what. His chance of being cleared of Tippit's murder was infinitesimal, only slightly smaller than his chance of getting off on Kennedy's.

Oswald was a big Fair Play for Cuba guy. I think his motive was to impress Castro and escape to Cuba as a hero. He had earlier tried and failed to assassinate Gen. Edwin Walker, an outspoken anti-communist. When the Dallas papers published the motorcade route a few days prior, he decided he had a shot at true commie glory from his perch in the Schoolbook Depository (where he had worked since mid-October).

Busted for brawling with a Cuban refugee

[Hildy]

I grew up with the Warren report strewn on my kitchen table. My Father truly was an expert. He covered Jack Ruby’s trial for the Saturday Evening Post. He interviewed all the major players...even that crazy one that Oliver Stone relied on for his movie. I’m just telling you what he said....we will never know, but we can make some fairly logical conclusions.

[Star Traveler]

Well, I’m sure it was interesting, then..., growing up around that, a lot... :-)

[prismsinc]

I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sure the moment is stuck to your memory like it happened yesterday :(

When 9/11 happened, I knew instantly Bin Laden was responsible. My coworkers asked “how do you know that?”. I told them I just knew. I was informed enough to know. I drew that conclusion in about 20 seconds ;-)

[Star Traveler]

It’s not all as it seems, sometimes...

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Since the Warren Commission Report was published in 1964, some researchers have uncovered evidence and witness testimony that calls into question some of the Commission conclusions regarding Tippit’s murder. Some of this evidence indicates that Oswald may have had an accomplice in the killing, or that possibly Tippit was killed by an assailant other than Oswald.

According to some researchers, the murder may have occurred earlier than the time of 1:15 p.m. given in the Warren Report. The timing is of critical importance, because Oswald is known to have arrived at his rooming house at around 1:00 p.m.,[18] then to have left 3 to 4 minutes later[19] and finally to have been seen a moment later standing by the corner bus stop.[20]

The Commission’s own test[21] and estimation of Oswald’s walking speed[22] demonstrated that one route to the Tippit shooting scene took 17 minutes and 45 seconds to walk.[23] No witness ever surfaced who saw Oswald walk from his rooming house to the murder scene.[24] Additionally, although the Commission stated in its Report that Domingo Benavides called police from Tippit’s radio immediately after the killing, Benavides had testified that he did not approach the car “for a few minutes” after the shooting.[25] He was also assisted in using the radio by T.F. Bowley, who testified to Dallas police that he had arrived at the scene after the murder, and that the time was 1:10 p.m.[26] Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig also stated that when he heard the news that Tippit had been shot he noted the time was 1:06 p.m. according to his watch.[27] Eyewitness Helen Markham said the shooting occurred “possibly around 1:30 p.m.”[28]

Only two Commission witnesses were identified as actually having seen the shooting, Helen Markham and Domingo Benavides. Joseph Ball, senior counsel to the Commission, has referred to Markham’s testimony as “full of mistakes,” and characterized her as “utterly unreliable.”[29] Markham made numerous false statements before the Commission, such as claiming to have been alone with Tippit’s body for twenty minutes after the killing.[30]

Benavides was not taken to a police lineup. He later testified that he had told police after the killing that he did not think he could identify the assailant,[31] but he did say that the killer resembled pictures he had seen of Oswald.

Additionally, certain witnesses who did not appear before the Commission identified an assailant who was not Oswald. Both Acquilla Clemons and Frank Wright witnessed the scene from their respective homes within one block of the murder. Clemons saw two men near Tippit’s car just before the shooting. After the shooting she ran outside and saw a man with a gun, whom she described as “kind of heavy”. He waved to the second man, urging him to “go on”.[32] Frank Wright also emerged from his home and observed the scene seconds after the shooting. He described a man standing by Tippit’s body who had on a long coat, and who immediately ran to a car and left the scene.[33]

There is also evidence to indicate that the cartridge shells recovered from the scene may not have been those subsequently entered into evidence. Two of the shells recovered at the scene were given to police officer J.M. Poe. Poe testified to the Commission that he believed that he had marked the shells with his initials, although he couldn’t “swear to it”.[34] However, no initials were found on the shells later produced by the police.[35] Poe later told researchers that he was absolutely certain that he had marked the shells.[36] Further the appearance of cartridge shells at the crime scene raises question for some because, according to Officer Hill, who took possession of Oswald’s revolver at his arrest, the gun’s six chambers were fully loaded with unspent cartridges and that Oswald had no loose ammunition on his person.[37]

William Alexander, the Dallas assistant district attorney who had recommended that Oswald be charged with the Kennedy and Tippit murders, has also been critical of the Commission’s version of the murder, stating that its conclusions on Oswald’s movements “did not add up”, and that “certainly, he may have had accomplices.”[38]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Tippit

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There’s a lot more to the story than meets the eye here, and also it may definitely not have been Oswald...

[Star Traveler]

You said — I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sure the moment is stuck to your memory like it happened yesterday :(

—

I wasn’t right in front of it, and so didn’t see it up close and personal, but was over by the Texas Schoolbook Depository building and nearer the corner — so I was on the very same street and just a bit “up the street” from where the motorcade had already progressed. And also, I was a kid, in grade school, there with my parents and so, it’s not as traumatic as one might think. In fact, at the time I just didn’t know what happened. Of course, it didn’t take long for the news to get out, but that was a little bit later, for me to know about it.

Of course, I’ve been back several times and the last time I was there, the white picket fence was still there (over by the railroad parking lot). And I walked on the tracks over on the overpass where one of the other shooters was seen by another person, loading up his gun in a bag and walking off...

I walk around there and look around a lot, when I’m there. And I’ve been there numerous times. It’s also only a couple of blocks from the Dallas Amtrak Station and I’ve gone out of there a number of times, too. The Amtrak goes right over that overpass...

===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====

You said — When 9/11 happened, I knew instantly Bin Laden was responsible. My coworkers asked “how do you know that?”. I told them I just knew. I was informed enough to know. I drew that conclusion in about 20 seconds ;-)

—

Yeah, on that one, I didn’t see it “live” on TV. Didn’t have it on at the time. It was my brother who called me on the phone and said, “You better turn on the TV!” So, I did, and by that time, it had already happened.

HOWEVER, the interesting thing was that I was already “involved” — so to speak — with the Islamic threat and also in regards to Osama bin Ladin, having seen his “Declaration of War” on the United States (along with several others signing the document). So, I knew that he had done that, but (at the time that I saw it) I didn’t really consider the threat viable and something that he was *able* to carry off here in the United States. I knew that the threat was real and serious, but I didn’t think he had the “capability” to do it.

I had also been familiar with the Congressional hearings on the threat of terrorism at the time and how many people were simply dismissing it as a “non-story” (a few years before the 9/11 attack). No one really took the threat of terrorism in the United States seriously. The public sure didn’t — although I was aware of Stephen Emerson’s Jihad in America (or something to that effect, can’t remember if that’s the exact name of the video).

You can even see some of my previous posts on Steven Emerson’s video on Free Republic, saying that people needed to see this. It’s still there..., if I can even find it... LOL...

But, anyway..., the

[Star Traveler]

I had this part “hanging”... LOL

—

But, anyway..., the

—

Don’t know what I was doing there... :-)

[Star Traveler]

If some of these things are “so fantastic” as you say, then it shouldn’t present any problems — to have people looking at them and deciding if that is so or not. Obviously, according to you, they would be “so fantastic” that no one would believe them...

So, what’s the problem... LOL...

[Star Traveler]

You said — To them, JFK (no offense to him) was better than all the Presidents who came after him, and many before him. JFK was elected in the generation of the spoiled baby boomers, who think history starts and ends with them.

—

Well, that’s fine for them, but for me, I wasn’t even aware of politics at the time. And I was only aware of the assassination because of being there at the time. I can’t speak for a lot of others who were older and politically involved — I can only speak for myself. For me, it’s simply a great murder/assassination story.

That’s how it’s fascinating to me...

[prismsinc]

You know Star, sometimes attempting to process too much information can hinder your purpose in acquiring it. I've had a few deep traumatic experiences in my life, and they've helped to give me insight into human behavior, both singularly and collectively.

This is why I'm able to adapt to the information so efficiently. Much of the info you knew about Bin Laden didn't have anything to do with what you didn't know about him.

It's fascinating to know you were there. Do you remember the weather conditions, the colors of plants, flowers and trees? Do you remember what your parents were wearing? Do you remember the color of the cars in the motorcade?

[word_warrior_bob]

If some of these things are “so fantastic” as you say, then it shouldn’t present any problems — to have people looking at them and deciding if that is so or not. Obviously, according to you, they would be “so fantastic” that no one would believe them...

So, what’s the problem... LOL...

_______________

They are so fantastic that only people like you believe them. There are many people like you who are prone to the most fantastic, bizarre, irrational, conspiratorial view of any issue.

Their is also a disturbing percentage of people who believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy, not carried out by Islamic lunatics. You and them ARE the problem.

Keep LOL’ing all you like. I’ll continue to find it disturbing how many people lack any critical thinking faculties and how many people believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories despite the mountains of evidence readily available that prove them 100% wrong, nothing to “LOL” about.

[katiekins1]

Chrissy knows the msnbc progressive,VILE,propaganda machine is sinking. I would relish watching Keith Over-bite eat liberal crow too.

[OrangeHoof]

Sorry, there is ZERO credible evidence linking Oswald to powerful, secretive organizations.

You couldn't be more wrong. True or False: Oswald joined the Marines and then was stationed in Japan at a base where espionage missions took place.

True or False: Oswald was able to get into the Soviet Union.

True or False: Oswald was able to get himself *and his wife* out of the Soviet Union when it was almost unheard of to do so.

True or False: Oswald began showing up in New Orleans working in front groups that were either doing the bidding of Castro or trying to pose as such for ex-FBI Guy Bannister?

True or False: While in Dallas, Oswald became fast friends with Russian emigrees, some with KGB connections.

True or False: Oswald is killed mob-style by a club owners with ties to the Chicago mob.

That's far more than "zero" credible evidence to me. Whether it all adds up to

I bought and read Posner's book and while I respect his research, his answer to every piece of evidence that disagreed with his conclusion is either a) the witness is lying or b) the witness is crazy. I'm sorry but when you get to 100 or so witnesses that must either be lying or crazy for your version to be true, you have to wonder who it really is that is lying or crazy.

Certainly, some of these witnesses are mistaken or publicity hounds or want to cash in on history somehow but I felt his book was a classic illustration of writing the conclusion before doing the research.

[Star Traveler]

You said — It’s fascinating to know you were there. Do you remember the weather conditions, the colors of plants, flowers and trees? Do you remember what your parents were wearing? Do you remember the color of the cars in the motorcade?

—

It’s hard to remember those things, actually, but I do know that it wasn’t raining, or else I would have been soaked, if that had been the case, and I wasn’t. Texas thunderstorms are something you don’t want to be “out” and about in. So, there was none of that. I think it was sunny, but I don’t remember it being hot or anything.

I did have to do a paper route later in the day, after the assassination, and I remember people wanting to grab papers from me, right on the street (but I couldn’t because I had only the right amount to deliver). It was the Dallas Times Herald (afternoon paper). It was already in the headlines when I delivered the route. I didn’t deliver the route in anything but a simple short-sleeved shirt, so it must have been comfortable outside.

My parents were dressed up, my mother with a dress (but that was common in that day, can’t remember it exactly or the color, though). My dad in his Sunday suit, as we did go to church, regularly. It was a dark suit. At the time, before everything happened, I could care less what we were doing there... LOL.. It was nice being out of school though. As for me, I was just in pressed pair of slacks and a short-sleeved shirt, as I remember.

My folks were deaf, so I was the one who told them most of what happened that day, from the news, as I was the one who heard about it later on. They didn’t know at the time, and neither did I at that particular time. In fact, I was the one who told my mother that the President had been killed, when I did hear about it on the news, shortly thereafter. I remember her reaction to it, saying “Oh no!” or something like that.

I don’t recall anything about plants, flowers and trees. It doesn’t seem that it was relevant or something that I noticed. I mean, I know that there are plants and trees and flowers and stuff around, but I couldn’t tell you anything about them...

Anyway, there are only bits and pieces of things, here and there...

I wouldn’t be of any help in terms of an investigator looking for what happened.

[Tribune7]

This book answers that question besides resolving the mysteries of who killed Hoffa and what happened to his body, AND how Joe Biden got elected to the U.S. Senate:

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Over time, I’ve come to the conclusion that if there was a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy, it was actually a mistake, based on incorrect information.

Again, if it was the case, then it might have been done on the incorrect belief that Kennedy either was insane, or was going to go insane, and that an insane US president could start a nuclear war, so had to be removed from office.

The problem began with JFKs severe health problems, in this case, Addison’s disease, a malfunctioning adrenal gland. As with his other health problems, this was kept as a closely guarded secret.

However, about when he became president, his Addison’s disease became obvious, because it changed the appearance of his skin, so would have been recognizable to any physician familiar with the disease.

At the time, the only known therapy for Addison’s disease was large doses of cortisone, which JFK had been taking for years. His family was believed to have put cortisone pills in safety deposit boxes around the country, just in case he needed some while traveling.

By the mid-1950s, cortisone was seen as a “miracle drug”, but a potentially dangerous one. It was mistakenly believed that if a person took a large amount of cortisone over a period of time, they would become dangerously paranoid with severe mood swings.

This mistaken belief was made far worse when a movie came out in 1957, called “Bigger Than Life”, starring the major Hollywood star James Mason:

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0049010/

It is about an ordinary family man and teacher, who because of a medical condition must take cortisone, which eventually turns him into a dangerous lunatic. His over-the-top performance was very frightening, and probably scared many people away from taking cortisone.

Add to this the national panic created by the Cuban Missile Crisis, and many people were on edge. It is very likely that questions would have been raised about potential causes of a nuclear war between the US and the Soviet Union, both intentionally and by accident.

So the chain of misunderstanding would have been fairly simple. A physician noted Kennedy’s Addison’s disease, and mentioned it to someone outside his inner circle. Perhaps the same doctor would have mentioned that large amounts of cortisone was used to treat the disease.

Then either the doctor would mention the incorrect belief about cortisone, or more likely, someone would have seen the James Mason movie, and believed it accurately portrayed the effects of cortisone.

The final step would be that after the Cuban Missile Crisis, someone asked about JFKs mental health. And when told that JFK was likely going insane, or was dangerously insane, decided that Kennedy had to be removed from office.

One final note: Kennedy himself was adamant about staying in office, because he had been told by his doctors that he was likely to die from his health problems even before he was elected president, and had proven them wrong. Therefore, he would have almost certainly rejected the suggestion that he step down for health reasons.

[Pistolshot]

It's as plausible that Oswald was shooting at Connoly rather than JFK, but the best evidence points to a crackpot named Oswald, shooting JFK to impress a woman.

Anything else is conjecture or grasping.

[word_warrior_bob]

If you actually read Posners book you would know the answers to these questions.

1. It took Oswald numerous tries to visit the Soviet Union. He misrepresented himself and after the KBG interview him he was REJECTED in his request to stay. Oswald then tried suicide. I don’t have time to type the rest of the story, Russians had different worries, etc. about Oswald, but they knew he was worthless as anything but a propaganda tool. He didn’t have any information that the Russians didn’t know. He wasn’t viewed as important.

2. You would know the story from Posner’s book

3. You’re suggesting Oswald wasn’t a Marxist/Commie now? He surely was, he wasn’t a double agent.

4. Again, you would know the answers to this question if you read Posner’s book instead of pretending that Oswald had some nefarious KGB connections which he most assuredly DID NOT.

5. Ruby was NOT a mobster. Ruby was a fruticake, as everyone who knew him readily attested to.

No one who knew him was even surprised when he killed Oswald. Ruby thought he was going to be an American Hero for killing Kennedy’s assasin.

Their reaction to Ruby killing Oswald was similar to my reaction to someone who I knew quite well who was a walking time bomb. In a well publicized case in NJ an idiot I knew was drunk driving in the middle of the day and killed a mother of 3. He wound up with about the longest sentence in history at the time for killing someone while DUI. I, and other were not shocked, but thought it was inevitable that he would do something that stupid and irresponsible.

In the same way, the people who knew Ruby knew him as a braggart, an exaggerator, a poser, a loose cannon, a total wanna be, there are plenty of wanna-be gangsters here in NJ, 99% of them aren’t “real” gangsters or have any “real” connections, nor would they be trusted to.

Ruby was a flake with a big mouth who couldn’t be trusted to keep ANYTHING quiet, he was the last person the Mafia would use to do ANYTHING.

Again, if you actually read Posner’s book, you would know this too.

Yes, I maintain steadfast to my claim that there is ZERO credible evidence to what you assert, just the repeating of tired, old, already disputed theories and wild speculation run rampant.

Ruby, the loudmouth flake, is actually a Mafioso trusted with the biggest hit in Mafia history.

Oswald, dubbed “Oswaldovitch” by his fellow Marines, a pathetic loser with delusions of grandeur is part of the biggest conspiracy in history with deep, dark KGB and CIA connections going to the highest levels.

It would be funny if so many people didn’t believe this nonsense.

As for your assertion that Posner came to his conclusion before writing his book. Are you calling him a liar? Are you saying he created evidence to support his assertion that Oswald acted alone? Is it not possible that his research into the assasination started much earlier and everything he researched led him to believe that Oswald acted alone?

Try and apply that same “standard” to all the conspiracy books who’s FIRST AND ONLY assumption is that Oswald DID NOT act alone. All conspiracy books assume Oswald did not act alone, so by your standards, they all suffer from the same fatal flaw as Posner’s book.

Logic, it’s a bitch.