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Report: George Tiller Shot To Death [Child Murderer Killed At Wichita Church]
KMBC ^ | May 31, 2009

Posted on 05/31/2009 10:08:54 AM PDT by upchuck

WICHITA, Kan. -- Dr. George Tiller, a Kansas man who became one of the most famous figures in the national debate over abortion, was shot and killed at his church Sunday morning, KAKE-TV reported.

Tiller was walking into Reformation Lutheran Church at 10:03 a.m., when he was shot.

Tiller was pronounced dead when emergency crews arrived, the station reported.

Police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a K-State vanity plate, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50's or 60's, 6'1," 220 lbs, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: abortionists; babykiller; banglist; churchshooting; evilman; georgetiller; murder; shooting; tiller; wichita
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To: Cedric
He was 3 minutes late for the 10:00 service.

And some rogue hall monitor couldn't abide that kind of tardiness.

201 posted on 05/31/2009 6:10:13 PM PDT by TheFourthMagi
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To: ketsu

Let me be clear about this... I am not against killing, I’m just against the killing of the innocent.


202 posted on 05/31/2009 6:17:07 PM PDT by babygene
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To: SampleMan

1. Regarding the Czechs — the Government surrendered — the people never did. And the Geneva Convention only applies when it works to our enemies advantage...

2. The difference between the Founders and Brown was that the Founders acted based on shared principles, after ore than a decade of appeals for redress, and they did so as representatives of their respective States. John Brown was a coward and vigilante who acted unilaterally and illegally.

3. That justice and legality are not synonymous is a principle we agree on. That the murder of an unborn child is the same as the murder of a 2 yr old child I generally agree on (there may be a caveat or 2, but generally agreed). But where we draw the line may be different. That Tiller is dead is not something I will weep over. But the question is, what is the net effect of that “justice” the killer doled out? I’ll tell you, the murder of MORE unborn babies, under the protection of Federal law enforcement, AND the persecution of those who would work to see abortions end! It was both illegal AND unjust to murder Tiller, if for no other reason than because the net effect will be that more babies die, and more liberties are lost — and civil conflict inevitably comes closer.

4. The Left never has to pay a price because they have no morals, and make no pretense to having morals (unless they see political benefit in it). There is therefore no criteria by which they are held accountable. The Press won’t hold them accountable, their comrades in the Washington political elite (Dem or Repub) won’t hold them accountable, their friends in the courts won’t hold them accountable. ONLY the people at election time MAY hold them accountable — and lately, that’s not been true. Furthermore, by the time the census is thru, ACORN is fully funded and in place, and the gerrymandering of new congressional districts in finished, not even a MAJORITY of the voters will be able to beat the deck they’ve stacked.


203 posted on 05/31/2009 6:19:47 PM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: patriot preacher

I think you are paranoid and way too willing to submit to leftist thoughtcrime blame for a crime someone else committed. Please, keep me out of your guilt trip.


204 posted on 05/31/2009 8:24:28 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: patriot preacher

4. The Left never has to pay a price because they have no morals, and make no pretense to having morals (unless they see political benefit in it). There is therefore no criteria by which they are held accountable. The Press won’t hold them accountable, their comrades in the Washington political elite (Dem or Repub) won’t hold them accountable, their friends in the courts won’t hold them accountable. ONLY the people at election time MAY hold them accountable — and lately, that’s not been true. Furthermore, by the time the census is thru, ACORN is fully funded and in place, and the gerrymandering of new congressional districts in finished, not even a MAJORITY of the voters will be able to beat the deck they’ve stacked.
* * * *

good work, though I disagree with your number 3, in that Tiller got his just desserts.


205 posted on 05/31/2009 8:28:01 PM PDT by Canedawg (You're only a racist if you're a white Conservative.)
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To: SaraJohnson

Sara — please explain..? I think you misunderstood what I said.

I did NOT say I believed all pro-lifers bore guilt regarding Tillers murder. I said we would all be blamed for it. Big difference.

And I didn’t put you into my [alledged] paranoid, delusional “guilt trip.” First, because I’m not feeling guilty for anything, and second, because I haven’t the first clue WHO you even are.

On the same token, if you believe the murder of Tiller was justified, then the “Pro-life” movement is in far more trouble than I thought.


206 posted on 05/31/2009 9:13:20 PM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: Canedawg

good work, though I disagree with your number 3, in that Tiller got his just desserts.
__________________________

Tiller has been inviting martyrdom for his “cause” for a long time. But to give him that status (regardless of whther or not he “deserved” what he got, will actually end up strengthening the baby killers we want so badly to stop! And now, they will be empowered to curtail our liberties, perhaps even bust down our doors, looking for “terrorist literature,” or weapons, or whatever they can to try and pin something on us.

This, in the current state of our nation, has placed a huge weapon in the hands of our enemies, and there is no reason to believe they won’t use it. Those who are spoiling for a fight on “our side” don’t know what they are asking for. Even if we were to ultimately “prevail,” what would THAT mean? What would be left?

I have no doubt that fight would have eventually come. Now, it will come sooner rather than later, and we are not ready. I would have preferred that THEY (government, Statists, Liberofascists) had been the ones to initiate the battle. But now, the perception (whether accurate or not) will be that “armed, fanatical pro-life Christian Conservatives” started this.

THis could easily spin out of control, and now, we will be the ones on our heels. And those who simply say “he got what he deserved” will be throwing gasoline on the fire with which they will be burned.


207 posted on 05/31/2009 9:25:27 PM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: patriot preacher

I am sorry to misunderstand you. Please forgive me.

I do not think Tiller should have been murdered but I am not sad he is dead - at all.


208 posted on 05/31/2009 10:12:33 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: patriot preacher

Stop making excuses. i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.


209 posted on 05/31/2009 10:56:59 PM PDT by Canedawg (You're only a racist if you're a white Conservative.)
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To: patriot preacher
1. Regarding the Czechs — the Government surrendered — the people never did. And the Geneva Convention only applies when it works to our enemies advantage...

We are speaking about matters of legality. The government surrendering makes the killing of Heidrich murder. But your point that the people ultimately must obey their own sense of justice apart from the government is precisely my point.

2. The difference between the Founders and Brown was that the Founders acted based on shared principles, after ore than a decade of appeals for redress, and they did so as representatives of their respective States. John Brown was a coward and vigilante who acted unilaterally and illegally.

Which is an excellent point. The Founders felt bound to present the Declaration of Independence before George III, and the Czechs established a government in exile. That said, the Founders excused a great deal of violence against the British, which occurred prior to the Declaration based on the premise that the people were acting out on issues of natural rights. The abolitionists had a long history and certainly represented a lot of people. What was John Brown's goal at Harper's Ferry? To arm a slave revolt. I doubt that the slaves working the fields of the South condemned his actions as too fanatical. And I doubt that any of us that had families ripped from us and our persons placed under another's total control would consider those actions too fanatical. So its really a matter of perspective.

But where we draw the line may be different. That Tiller is dead is not something I will weep over. But the question is, what is the net effect of that “justice” the killer doled out? I’ll tell you, the murder of MORE unborn babies, under the protection of Federal law enforcement, AND the persecution of those who would work to see abortions end! It was both illegal AND unjust to murder Tiller, if for no other reason than because the net effect will be that more babies die, and more liberties are lost — and civil conflict inevitably comes closer.

Actually, we are not in disagreement on that, except that I would caveat that it is possible for an action to be both just in the micro and counterproductive in the macro. That is actually the crux of my point. Interestingly it is thousands of Czechs were slaughtered in retaliation for the death of Heidrich, so the same question could be asked concerning that.

210 posted on 06/01/2009 3:58:17 AM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: fullchroma
Tiller’s now a martyr

More proof that abortion is a religious sacrament, not a medical procedure.

211 posted on 06/01/2009 5:37:19 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: SampleMan
Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.

Should that be "Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of [] obeying them"? Methinks that's what you meant.

40,000,000 no longer live with the result of obeying them.

212 posted on 06/01/2009 5:40:43 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: Jack Black

When the laws stop protecting innocents, innocents must be protected by other means.


213 posted on 06/01/2009 6:55:49 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: ctdonath2

Yes, you caught my bad grammar.


214 posted on 06/01/2009 11:39:04 AM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: ctdonath2
The problem with the murder of Tiller is twofold. As a practical matter, the incident is a "Reichstag fire" type event that will be used by the pro-aborts and the Left to pursue their agenda. They dominate the Obama Administration and Congress. The Tiller killing will be used to push gun control legislation, hate crime bills, and prohibition of cyberbullying. It also provides some rationale for the Department of Homeland Security targeting pro-life groups and other conservative, Christian, libertarian, or white separatist groups as potential terrorists.

As a matter of principle, the administration of justice is properly the matter of the civil authorities (see Romans 13). Even if the government is in the hands of wicked people, the subjects of that government should not usurp its power. In I Samuel 24, we note that David did not kill King Saul when he had the opportunity to do so. The powers of government are rightly restricted, and when its commands are in conflict with God's Word, we are justified to disobey immoral orders of the government. However, this does not extend to a person unlawfully doing what the government should do.

215 posted on 06/01/2009 11:55:55 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
As a practical matter, the incident is a "Reichstag fire" type event that will be used by the pro-aborts and the Left to pursue their agenda.

Or like the killing of the German Ambassador in Paris, was used as the pretext for Kristallnacht.

216 posted on 06/01/2009 11:56:56 AM PDT by dfwgator (The Huskies are Gator Bait!)
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To: Wallace T.
a couple of questions:

I define murder as the wrongful taking of an innocent life. If you agree with my definition, please explain how the execution of this doctor was a murder.

If you could stop the murder of thousands and you did not, isn't your inaction immoral? Why would you not be culpable in some way?

I believe many of us here consider abortion to be murder, but we don't have the courage to act upon that belief.

217 posted on 06/01/2009 12:01:09 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, school and passport records.)
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To: dfwgator
The unfortunate fact is that all factions have their crazies who are willing to essentially sacrifice their lives to achieve a Phyrric victory. This is compounded when the mass media take one side of the argument. As an example, had conservatives, rather than liberals, controlled the major outlets of opinion in 1963, the assassination of Kennedy by a Marxist crazy might have been used to resurrect restrictions on domestic Communists and other leftists that had fallen out of favor after the early 1950s.
218 posted on 06/01/2009 12:04:49 PM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: nufsed
I concur that abortion is murder. However, just because Tiller was a murderer does not justify his murder by another party. As an example, the fact that Bugsy Siegel was a murderer did not make his assassination by a rival faction of gangsters anything other than murder. Timothy McVeigh believed he was avenging the deaths of the Branch Davidians when he blew up a Federal office building in Oklahoma City. Even if one holds the Feds responsible for what happened in Waco, he was not justified in killing Federal employees or their children in the on-premises day care facility.

We must also understand that vengeance and administration of justice are not the roles of private individuals. "Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near, And the impending things are hastening upon them." (Deuteronomy 32: 35, NASB). This point is also repeated in Romans 12 and Hebrews 10 in the New Testament. Civil government is authorized in certain instances to administer justice, as Romans 13 indicates. Jesus Christ Himself stated that there is a role for government in society, "render unto Caesar" in Matthew 22:21 and Mark 12:17.

219 posted on 06/01/2009 12:23:18 PM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
There is a difference between vengeance and stopping the continuing murder of innocents.

Why do you call the killing of this murderer a murder. I gave you my definition earlier and asked you to explain why this was a murder.

220 posted on 06/01/2009 12:28:43 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, school and passport records.)
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To: nufsed
I agree with your definition of murder except for the term, "innocent". It is not the role of a private individual to make such judgments. This is the role of the civil magistrate, not an individual without authority to do so. There is no problem with killing another person in self-defense or in protection of other people when they are imminently threatened with death or injury. Jesus Christ said in Luke 22:36: "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." The sole purpose of the sword is protecting self and property, not acting as a self-appointed executioner.

Besides, the murder of Tiller did not prevent one abortion. His death will not stope even one of some 1.5 million babies from being killed by abortionists this year. If anything, the act of unauthorized vengeance will be counterproductive, for even if the Left is unsuccessful in using his death to push pro-abort and anti-Christian legislation, it will persuade many people to reject the pro-life argument. If abortion is ever to end in this country, we need to win the hearts and minds of the opponents and the uncommitted.

221 posted on 06/01/2009 12:47:36 PM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
You don't know how many murders his death will prevent. Given the small number of doctors willing to murder babies in their third tri-mester, I would assume it would prevent some murders.

If the third tri-mester fetus cannot be called an innocent life, who can?

I did ask the moral question, do we not have an obligation to prevent those murders?

222 posted on 06/01/2009 4:45:56 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, school and passport records.)
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To: nufsed
It is possible that the murder of Tiller will persuade abortionists from murdering babies in the third trimester. However, this was the first murder of an abortionist in a decade. Abortionists have a higher risk of death or injury from driving from their home to the abortion facility. They probably also have a higher risk of death or injury through infections incurred while at work. Assassination is just not a high risk.

As to the question of what obligation exists to prevent murder via abortion, that obligation stands in conflict with other requirements, such as those to be responsible to your family, to obey the civil authorities, and to live peaceably in society, among others.

The first point is that no one, not even those in authority, can absolutely abolish abortion. Were abortion to be outlawed tomorrow entirely in all 50 states, abortions will continue to occur. There were plenty of underground abortionists pre-Roe v. Wade; for example, Frank Sinatra's mother was an abortionist in New Jersey during the 1930s. All 50 states have laws against murder, rape, and robbery, yet these crimes happen. Until the Second Coming, these crimes will continue to occur.

The second point is that when you commit an act of murder to kill an abortionist, you will likely go to jail for a long time and in some states, you will be sent to the execution chamber. A person who does so will be unable to support his parents, his spouse, or his children. He may be in violation of the Fifth Commandment, if his parents need support, and of 1 Timothy 5:8 which tells us, "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever." (ESV)

The third point is that punishment of wrongdoing is the role of the civil magistrate, not a self-appointed vigilante. I have dwelt on this point at length previously. The fact that government has failed to protect the lives of the unborn does not justify a violation of the Sixth Commandment.

The fourth point is that we are to live peaceably in society. Romans 12:18 states, "If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." (NASB) As Matthew Henry states in his commentary: "...if our enemies are not melted by persevering kindness, we are not to seek vengeance; they will be consumed by the fiery wrath of that God to whom vengeance belongeth." Committing an act of violence outside of the realm of self-protection or of Biblical duties to protect family and country stands outside this command.

In summary, while we are obliged to help our neighbor, such obligation does not supercede other Biblical obligations, such as obedience to authority, duty to family, and a life at peace.

223 posted on 06/02/2009 9:37:39 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
How do you live peacefully in a society where babies are being klled by the tens of thousands? It's like living down the road from the concentration camp and saying nothing, because it would disrupt local law and order. It's more an act of moral cowardice than adherence to law.

The fact that you cannot entirely abolish abortion in no way would free us from the obligation of trying and doing what we could.

I ask you again. Why is it murder to kill a murderer who will continue to murder.

I must fall back on my Nazi analogy. A civil magistrate who is culpable in the murders by ommission or negligence should not and must not be relied upon to stop the murder. They have shown they cannot do the right thing. So who is left to stop the slaughter?

224 posted on 06/02/2009 10:15:16 AM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, school and passport records.)
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