Posted on 06/02/2009 5:35:46 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
In a world full of death and suffering, some creatures are known to be fierce carnivores (meat eaters). In fact, the perception of animals eating other animals is seen as normal in today’s secular, evolution-influenced society. But was it always like that?...
(Excerpt) Read more at answersingenesis.org ...
If that's the case, there could not have been reproduction either.
Herbivores and meatavores, or something like that.
Are you counting sperm as being alive?
Why not?
Big IF. We’re talking assumptions on top of assumptions, wrapped inside of assumptions here. I’ve seen little Biblical evidence, aside from more mega-inferences, that animal death is the wages of human sin. Doesn’t make much sense really ... Adam sinned, so Lions eat antelopes? I don’t get it.
As for whether human death preceded sin — of course it didn’t, because the first humans sinned (before they died). The question of whether God created human death after Adam sinned, or whether God predestined human death knowing that Adam would sin is really a chicken-egg argument.
There is also a reasonable chance that the Bible is referring to spiritual death (separation from God), not physical death, in those passages. Maybe, maybe not.
My point is ... honestly, we don’t know. I don’t know. You don’t know. And, ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. So, why worry?
SnakeDoc
A restoration of Edenic conditions?
Because if reproduction occured, you would soon have layers and layers of animals on top of other animals. If you have reproduction, you must also have death and decay in order to maintain balance.
I think it means that God meant us to be vegetarians. Eating animals is a sign of the degeneration man has undergone.
Thank you for the ping DeLaine.
I think a case can be made that sin indirectly caused animals to become meat eaters.
Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Before the fall plant life could have had all the nutrients needed for all animals to survive. After God cursed the earth it's possible that over time plants became less and less nutritious and animals, to survive, began eating each other.
I think you misread the article.
Actually, not a vegetarian. Eats meat. Vegetarians don't eat meat.
Question: How do you know there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned?
Look, I’m an omnivore! Burger and fries!
Not necessarily. What if the reproductive rate was held to a frequency necessary to maintain then current population levels? Or what if fertility was shut down completely? Why do you assume unlimited fecundity? Even evos maintain that systems can regulate themselves.
The interesting thing is, we don’t know how long it was before they sinned.
Uh, that rate would have to be ZERO. ZERO equals NONE. Nada. No reproduction.
So? I’ve seen nature documentaries where a “vegetarian” hippopotamus starts chowing down on drowned wildebeest; indeed, taking it away from a crocodile.
But “suddenly carnivorous” animals don’t fit into the author’s worldview.
Sure, its “possible”. And, I think you’re right that a “case can be made”. Plants “could have” been the only intended source of nutrition.
But, I think it is just as possible to make exactly the opposite case — that animals were, and are, unaffected by the curse of Adam, and that they are now as they were when created.
Biblically, I think both cases can be made — depending on how you interpret certain passages. Logically, I think the latter case holds more weight (particularly considering that predators appear to pre-date humans ... teeth marks on fossils, etc.). But, I cannot say definitively that it is true ... I wasn’t there.
That is precisely my point. It is all conjecture from a few Biblical sentence fragments that only refer tangentially to the subject of this conversation. We each came to our opinion based on our assumptions, not the text. The Bible is pretty vague on this subject.
And, it really doesn’t matter. The pre-sin existence of animal predation is not among the major (or minor) tenets of Christianity. It is a Biblical triviality — merely an interesting question to ask the Almighty when your number comes up.
SnakeDoc
So how does that contradict my postulating a self regulating system? If no reproduction is needed then none occurs.
The only disagreement I see here is “why”.
Is it population pressure or God’s will? I say God’s will. What say you?
It means - don’t you have anything useful to do?
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