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Attempt to debunk Obama's Kenyan birth certificate debunked (Barry name change legal?)
Examiner.com ^ | August 5, 2009 | Geoff Linsley

Posted on 08/05/2009 6:30:17 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

Along with the introduction of what appears to be the most valid-looking Obama birth certificate came an almost immediate attempt to debunk it. This attempt was immediately eaten up by MSNBC, Obama’s main propaganda network, by hosts like Keith Olbermann.

 
The main argument of this attempt to debunk the certificate is that Kenya hadn’t yet become a republic at the time the document was dated: Feb 14, 1964. The argument is that Kenya was officially declared a republic in December of that year.
The second most important argument is that the region he was born in wasn’t called Mombasa at the time: it was instead Zanzibar.
Another argument is that the hospital he was supposedly born in was called “Coast Provincial General Hospital,” yet the document says “Coast General Hospital.”
One more argument is that his father’s address has within it “Nyanza Province,” but at the time it would have been called “Central Nyanza District.”
The final argument is that his father would have been 24 or 25 at the time, not 26, as the document states.
 
There are other suspicious, circumstantial arguments, too.
The document number is said to be 47O44, seemingly a compilation of his age as of the time the document was obtained “47,” his presidential order “44,” and an O for Obama.
Also, the Signature of the Registrar’s name is E.F. Lavender, an abbreviation of a name of detergent called “Earth Friendly Lavender.”
 
At first look, this seems like a lot of evidence that the document is a forgery. That is, until we actually take the time to dissect these claims.
 
Kenya was first announced as the “Republic of Kenya” in the country’s Constitution, dated Dec. 12, 1963. It is claimed that everything wasn’t official with the name change until Dec. 1964, which is true; however, it took a year to make this gradual change. It didn’t happen in one day. "CHAPTER I - THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA, Article 1, Kenya is a sovereign Republic. Article 1A, The Republic of Kenya shall be a multiparty democratic state…" The 1964 date that people are confusing involves an act of the British Parliament in regard to the Commonwealth of Nations, not the origin of the Republic.
 
The “Central Nyanza District” argument is just total hogwash. The area changed names to “Nyanza Province” even before his dad was born there.
 
The absence of “Provincial” in the hospital’s name is irrelevant. You can find it named with and without that word in its title from multiple sources.
 
Mombasa became part of Kenya in 1963, so having the document obtained in 1964 would require a name change of his place of origin from Zanzibar to Mombasa.
Barack Obama, Jr. was born in Aug., 1961.    Barack Obama, Sr.’s birthday is more obscure. It is said he was born in 1936, but no specific date is given. If this is true, it would make him 25. As the actual date is obscure, it doesn’t appear to be a huge dilemma that he may have been born instead in 1935. In addition, birth certificates aren’t necessary for the creation of new ones. Am I off-base to think Barack Jr. may have learned his trick of birth secrecy from someone?
 
Well that sums up the important arguments. Now for the circumstantial ones.
 
I don’t really even understand what is funny about having “E. F. Lavender” as a Registrar. Couldn’t a forger have come up with a funnier name? What does a dish detergent have to do with any of this? Do people think no one is named E.F. Lavender? Here’s a picture of Eric Lavender in Uganda, which neighbors Kenya. Maybe this is the guy? One guy even told me he saw Registrar Lavender’s plaque in the Registrar’s office. I guess I don’t even understand why people consider this an issue. If I were forging the document, I’d rather put a funnier, more relevant name in that slot, like B. M. Helfmovment.
 
The only interesting thing about the birth certificate to me is the file number, but even this has been fudged slightly. It is said that the number is “47O44” from propaganda issuers like Keith Olbermann. There is no O in the number, it’s a 0. That’s zero if you still can’t tell the difference. I admit the other numbers are coincidental, but I think it is far too assumptive to mean they discredit anything. I know I’ve had much bigger coincidences happen in my life.
 
The goal of this article is not to say that the birth certificate is 100% authentic. It may be a hoax. The goal of the article is to show that the Obama sheeple are clinging to debunking propaganda, which for all we know may have been initiated by the Obama campaign itself, in order to try to maintain the idea that their leader is innocent. We don’t know if it’s legitimate, yet. But right now, the birth certificate has not been properly debunked. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Taitz’s court date is set for December. Other lawyers from across the country are on top of many of the other issues regarding the birth certificate problem.
 
Many sheeple have been questioning why the birthers have been claiming that this might be real when it is a copy and not the original, like the Hawaiian one birthers want to see. The reason is that this is a copy of an actual registration. The Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth isn’t a copy of a real birth certificate. They could be obtained by citizens who weren’t naturally born. Obama’s sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born in Indonesia. No one disputes this. Guess what? She has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, too.  How can this be? Hawaiian law didn’t require people to be natural born citizens, born in Hawaii, in order to obtain one. Therefore, Obama hasn’t showed anything resembling proof of his citizenship. This is why this birther thing is still an issue! How can it be solved? All that is required to put all of this to rest is for Obama to give Hawaii permission, in his presidential capacity, to show people the long-form certificate. It’s that simple to resolve. So, why all the secrecy?
 
How did it all start? It started when Obama was caught using fake birth certificates with aliases like Barry Soetoro and Barry Dunham, which caused people to question who he was. There is also evidence that he never legally changed his name from Barry Soetoro back to Barack Obama. If this is found true, Obama may be guilty of several counts of fraud!
 
The birther issue is not about race. It’s about the law. Birthers do have motivation, but it is generally rooted in politics, not race. This is not to say that some aren’t racist, but it is just pure ignorance to claim that all of them are. My motivation, for example, is that I don’t like Obama’s communist ideals. I’m a libertarian. Right-wingers like the idea of freedom and limited government. We aren’t nuts or racist because of this. I personally believe that, if left unchecked, the Obama administration would destroy many of the last vestiges of freedom in this country. To me, he is like Bush, but worse. Just look at what he’s doing in Afghanistan. This is an acceleration of Bush’s failed policies! Why can’t people see past Olbermann and MSNBC’s lies and see what’s right in front of them?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: allahpundit; birthers; charlesjohnson; conspiracytheory; hillary; hotair; lgf; pumas; woowoo
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When did Barry Soetoro legally change his name to Barack Obama?

There is no evidence that he did, which means that he was not elected President because his legal name did not appear on the ballot.

1 posted on 08/05/2009 6:30:17 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

We the people don’t know what name he used the second time he was sworn in by Justice Roberts, do we?


2 posted on 08/05/2009 6:34:24 AM PDT by silverleaf (If you can't be a good example, at least don't be a horrible lesson)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

LOL! Birther cranks strain at the gnat of being given the standard Hawaii birth document instead of some alleged Sooper Sekrit “long form”, and then swallow the herd of camels accompanying this obvious forgery. If it came out that this “Kenya Birth Certificate” had been faxed from the Kinko’s in Abilene, Texas as part of a deal where somebody sent his bank account data to a former Nigerian prince, these moonbats would find a way to rationalize that, too.


3 posted on 08/05/2009 6:35:17 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Willard Romney.
4 posted on 08/05/2009 6:37:02 AM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What is the most effective way to fool most of the sheeple? At the age of 44, you write an autobiography full of lies, falsehoods, and inaccurate claims. You simply pen a myth about yourself, knowing the media and the stupid Democrats will drool over it, not ever even entertaining the thought of vetting it for truth and accuracy. Obama is a foreign imposter and usurper! Something has got to be done to remove this fraud from the Oval Office!


5 posted on 08/05/2009 6:37:50 AM PDT by Galtoid ( .)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Kenya was first announced as the “Republic of Kenya” in the country’s Constitution, dated Dec. 12, 1963. It is claimed that everything wasn’t official with the name change until Dec. 1964, which is true; however, it took a year to make this gradual change. It didn’t happen in one day. "CHAPTER I - THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA, Article 1, Kenya is a sovereign Republic. Article 1A, The Republic of Kenya shall be a multiparty democratic state…" The 1964 date that people are confusing involves an act of the British Parliament in regard to the Commonwealth of Nations, not the origin of the Republic.

I followed the link, and can't find where the article provides an example of a known genuine Kenyan birth certificate from that date (heck, that month would do) that gives the nation's name as "Republic of Kenya". I'm sure this oversight will be corrected soon; perhaps I ought to drop the author a line....

6 posted on 08/05/2009 6:37:56 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Many sheeple have been questioning why the birthers have been claiming that this might be real when it is a copy and not the original, like the Hawaiian one birthers want to see. The reason is that this is a copy of an actual registration. The Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth isn’t a copy of a real birth certificate. They could be obtained by citizens who weren’t naturally born. Obama’s sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born in Indonesia. No one disputes this. Guess what? She has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, too. How can this be? Hawaiian law didn’t require people to be natural born citizens, born in Hawaii, in order to obtain one. Therefore, Obama hasn’t showed anything resembling proof of his citizenship. This is why this birther thing is still an issue! How can it be solved? All that is required to put all of this to rest is for Obama to give Hawaii permission, in his presidential capacity, to show people the long-form certificate. It’s that simple to resolve. So, why all the secrecy?”

I think this pretty much puts in proper perspective for the air heads out there like Olbermann and O ‘Reilly and Ann Coulter etc.

The vast majority of us here are not kooks and scoundrels. Why all this energy in determining whether we are or not and whether the president is or isn’t...?

WHY NOT SHOW YOUR GD LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE.. AND BE DONE WITH THIS, MR. PRESIDENT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! QUIT BEING SUCH AN @SS HOLE ABOUT IT....


7 posted on 08/05/2009 6:40:32 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: steve-b

Steve-b, How did you know I live in Abilene. I didn’t get a fax ever, I swear, LOL


8 posted on 08/05/2009 6:42:25 AM PDT by Old Texan ((Leave me the HECK alone and let me live my life. I hate Commie's))
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To: steve-b

Don’t think I understand what you’re saying... or maybe I do. Speak plainly on what you mean to say, please.


9 posted on 08/05/2009 6:42:52 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: Galtoid

This is true. Everything we know of this guy is from, guess who? HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine if this were the case with G W?

I’m past the stage of laughing about this...

Just produce your real birth records along with the other documents of your education and work.


10 posted on 08/05/2009 6:44:37 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: nikos1121

This thing makes the Bush National Guard documents used by Dan Rather look like the model of authenticity. That clear enough for ya?


11 posted on 08/05/2009 6:44:48 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The author of this article is citing a modern 1998 constitution and insisting it is a 1963 one. Funny!

On the document he cites it says, "Revised Edition (1998) 1992"

He also neglected to mention that the 1963 constitution makes the queen of enland the head of state, letting her nominate the commander in chief and governor general. The document has "her majesty" all over the place.

It's a constitutional monarchy, not a republic.
They didn't have a president on Dec 12th, 1963.
12 posted on 08/05/2009 6:45:03 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: steve-b

I fail to see where he provided a link to Kenyan BC. Can you show us?


13 posted on 08/05/2009 6:46:21 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: steve-b
You won't find the bulk of FReepers insisting that the Orly Taitz B/C is genuine.

You will find them insisting that it has not been authenticated, nor has it been debunked. This is Orly Taitz's own position.

The real issue, repeated many times on these threads, and just now by you, is as follows.

Does the B/C match other B/Cs of the same period?

Does the book and register number match a record in the Birth registry?

And do the details in the registry match?

These items alone are important. Any assumptions the brownshirt media might have about Mombasan registration workflow and letterheading fifty years ago are simply not relevant to the discussion. Only the primary sources matter.

14 posted on 08/05/2009 6:46:56 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra
The even more fundamental problem is that no government documents from a corrupt Third World state can be relied upon very much. That makes this hoaxer's failure to come up with a more convincing fake all the more pathetic, when you think about it.
15 posted on 08/05/2009 6:49:02 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“These allegations are false... and I need to get back to work for the American people.” - Bill Clinton


16 posted on 08/05/2009 6:52:22 AM PDT by P.O.E. ((optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I think the main argument in debunking it is that it’s an almost exact copy of one from Australia down to the names and numbers. It’s in the Oops thread post 291.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2307402/posts?q=1&;page=251


17 posted on 08/05/2009 6:52:44 AM PDT by NRPM (America again in 2010!)
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To: steve-b

I think the author of this article says from the start, that the Kenyan BC may be a forgery.

My problem with it, is that is has an embossed raised seal. In other words, it’s an original copy of the copy of his Kenyan BC.

Therefore, where did come from? It implies that it was stolen.

For example, my BC copy has an embossed seal.

This raises the speculation that it may have been in the divorce papers of his mother, when she filed for divorce in the 1964, the date on the Kenyan document.

So who clapped it?

The fact that she’s not telling us who the anonymous donor is, smacks with a big question mark.

I’ve said all along, that this document may have been planted by the Obama people to discredit this movement.

I for one, look askance at this. I don’t really care about whether he was born here or not.

I want to know about the other things. Like the courses he took in college... his calendar as State Congressman...His law school writings... His Hawaiian education.

Why is it you can go, or your used to go to Dixon and Eureka and there would old timers telling stories of young Reagan.

Where are the stories about this guy?

Where he did get ALL THIS MONEY to out finance Hillary? Where?

I suspect it was from foreign sources in Saudi and Syria and Iran etc. etc.

And no doubt he got alot from the likes of Chavez and maybe even this guy Zalaya (sp?) in Hondurus...

If we agree, it’s to agree that we shouldn’t put anymore energy in this Kenyan BC.

In the meantime Mr. President...QUIT ACTING LIKE AN @SS HOLE AND PRODUCE THESE DOCUMENTS.


18 posted on 08/05/2009 6:54:57 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: agere_contra
You will find them insisting that it has not been authenticated, nor has it been debunked. This is Orly Taitz's own position.

People are missing the point on this one. It doesn't matter whether it is real or not. What we now have are two conflicting pieces of digital evidence ( Obamas COLB and the Kenyan BC ). The only way for the judge in CA to resolve this is to order discovery of the actual hard copies from Hawaii ( he can have the State Department request them from Kenya, but in all reality, they don't have to comply ). The main reason for producing this document now is to force production of the Hawaii BC.

19 posted on 08/05/2009 6:56:59 AM PDT by TheCipher
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To: steve-b

Ah, I see.

Despite your calls for the document to be tested against known documents of the right time and place, you are dogmatically convinced that it’s a hoax.

You call for supporting documents. However - typical lefty tactic - you inoculate your position against the truth by insisting that any supporting evidence that the ‘hoaxer’ DOES turn up will just be proof of his/her incompetence, in not bribing someone sooner.

So any new data that turns up will confirm you in your delusion.

Your position is intellectually dishonest: please snap out of it. Joint the rest of us, who remain ready to be convinced of the truth whatever it might be.


20 posted on 08/05/2009 6:59:52 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: TheCipher

RASSMUSSEN HAS HIM AT -8 TODAY!!!!!!!


21 posted on 08/05/2009 7:00:14 AM PDT by nikos1121 (praying for -13)
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To: NRPM

The Orly B/C isn’t a forgery based on the Bomford B/C.

It might very well turn out to be a forgery - that’s why it need to be authenticated against the registry.

But its not a forgery just because somebody made their own fake.

Neither it is a forgery just because somebody else made a version with different letters and numbers.

And if a thousand gaywads from SomethingAwful make a thousand new forgeries tomorrow, each with its own spectacular backstory, that still doesn’t reflect on the authenticity or otherwise of the Orly B/C


22 posted on 08/05/2009 8:28:01 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Attorney Phil Berg announced in Oct. 2008 Soetoro/Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya.

He was ignored.

Attorney Orly Taitz published a photograph of a birth registration showing Obama born in Mombasa, Kenya.

She was ridiculed.

It’s worth an investigation. It is likely Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya.


23 posted on 08/05/2009 8:28:03 AM PDT by SvenMagnussen (Clever tagline can only be seen on the other internet.)
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To: NRPM

The Orly B/C isn’t a forgery based on the Bomford B/C.

It might very well turn out to be a forgery - that’s why it need to be authenticated against the registry.

But its not a forgery just because somebody made their own fake.

Neither it is a forgery just because somebody else made a version with different letters and numbers.

And if a thousand gaywads from SomethingAwful make a thousand new forgeries tomorrow, each with its own spectacular backstory, that still doesn’t reflect on the authenticity or otherwise of the Orly B/C


24 posted on 08/05/2009 8:28:09 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

One thing that may have passed by me (many things do...), but is there any evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was pregnant?

On another thread, there was a fleeting mention of BHO being adopted, which would explain how some of the Hawaiian statements are worded.

Just checking all assumptions.


25 posted on 08/05/2009 8:33:47 AM PDT by Andy from Chapel Hill
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This from article, “It started when Obama was caught using fake birth certificates with aliases like Barry Soetoro and Barry Dunham, which caused people to question who he was.”

When did this happen? If there are birth certificates with those names on it even the MSM would have to report that.

We knoe he had lied repeatedly and we know there is something he wants ketp hidden. I just hope people keep trying to find out.


26 posted on 08/05/2009 8:39:10 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This from article, “It started when Obama was caught using fake birth certificates with aliases like Barry Soetoro and Barry Dunham, which caused people to question who he was.”

When did this happen? If there are birth certificates with those names on it even the MSM would have to report that.

We knoe he had lied repeatedly and we know there is something he wants ketp hidden. I just hope people keep trying to find out.


27 posted on 08/05/2009 8:40:19 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Great article. Way too early for dismissal. I believe there is a high likelihood this is genuine.
28 posted on 08/05/2009 8:45:37 AM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

A real moonbats are those who think it’s normal for an elected official to hide and lie about his past.


29 posted on 08/05/2009 8:51:42 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
When did Barry Soetoro legally change his name to Barack Obama?

This was something I was not aware of. Very good summary.
30 posted on 08/05/2009 9:10:04 AM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the occupation media.)
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To: TheCipher
People are missing the point on this one. It doesn't matter whether it is real or not. What we now have are two conflicting pieces of digital evidence ( Obamas COLB and the Kenyan BC ). The only way for the judge in CA to resolve this is to order discovery of the actual hard copies from Hawaii ( he can have the State Department request them from Kenya, but in all reality, they don't have to comply ). The main reason for producing this document now is to force production of the Hawaii BC.

Bingo! Exactly!!

31 posted on 08/05/2009 9:10:28 AM PDT by conservativegramma (Palin has my vote: whoever the media hates I love)
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To: ladyjane

hear hear!


32 posted on 08/05/2009 9:12:44 AM PDT by Tirian
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill
but is there any evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was pregnant?

It is interesting to note that there are several accounts of BHO senior by friends, colleagues, and the like, and he never mentions his marriage to Stanley or child. However, the evidence of her friends in Seattle in 1961 (See Corsi's article on WND) is that Stanley TALKED about BHO Senior being the father of the child on several different occcasions.

Personally, I would like to believe that Frank Marshal is the father, but I have seen no evidence to support that. Also, when he first visited Kenya, he was pleasantly embraced by the Obama family and there are many Kenyans, including is aunt and half-brothers who clearly believe that they are related to him.

What I find interesting is that she got pregnant after allegedly knowing BHO senior for one month! However, there is a fair amount of evidence that Stanley's father had known BHO senior for a long time -- he apparently met him as he came off the boat in Hawaii! (Fred Nerks has posted about this.

What most people don't really seem to get is that the Dunham family were all rabid marxists/socialists for all their lives and that the people that they hung out with in Hawaii were all of this same ilk ("fellow travelers"). As far as I can tell, BHO junior has spent most of his like hanging out with these types of people -- Marshall and company in Hawaii, Pakistani friends at Occidental and Columbia, his recommendation to Harvard Law School by a known radical black activist, spending time as a "community organizer, belonging to Wright's afro-centric church. They say that birds of a feather flock together, and BHO junior seems to have spent most of his life hanging out with Marxist flocks.

33 posted on 08/05/2009 9:13:45 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

In Kalifornia it is perfectly legal (well it used to be) to just change your name. All you have to do is publish it in a legal journal of record. The kicker is that there “MUST BE NO INTENT TO DEFRAUD”.


34 posted on 08/05/2009 9:17:13 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit The law will be followed, dammit!)
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill
is there any evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was pregnant?

Andrew Sullivan's lawyer on Line 2 -- something about plaigarizing his client's conspiracy-theory intellectual property....

35 posted on 08/05/2009 9:20:00 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: steve-b

I really don’t know what you are referring to. WE want the help of the courts and the State Dept. To determine whether or not this document is AUTHENTIC. IF it is, great. If not, we will have to eat Crow, but most of the birthers that I know have not vouched for it one way or the other. It is an open question untill any validation.

Are you afraid of a legitimate inquiry? If this thing is fake, it furthers the goal of delegitimizing the birthers. If real, well the SHTF, and this lying crypto-marxist demagogue will meet his Waterloo.


36 posted on 08/05/2009 9:32:37 AM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill

We’re fairly certain he WAS adopted, by his stepfather Lolo Soetoro and became a citizen of Indonesia.


37 posted on 08/05/2009 9:41:24 AM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: spacejunkie2001

“We’re fairly certain he WAS adopted, by his stepfather Lolo Soetoro and became a citizen of Indonesia.”


Unfortunately no adoption papers have yet emerged and when Lolo Soetoro registered Barry at St Francis di Assisi Catholic School in Jakarta, Indonesia in 1967, he listed Barry’s birth place and birth date as Honolulu, Hawaii,and August 4, 1961.
A minor born in the United States does not lose US citizenship. In order to lose US citizenship, an adult has to renounce their US citizenship by an act of renunciation such as surrendering a passport or voting in a foreign election.


38 posted on 08/05/2009 10:43:46 AM PDT by jamese777
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To: steve-b
So...you believe that Øbama deserves -- and is Constitutionally qualfied -- to remain in our White House?
39 posted on 08/05/2009 12:15:18 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: TXnMA

So...you believe that Øbama deserves — and is Constitutionally qualfied — to remain in our White House?


I believe that.
In the America I know all persons including Presidents are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by judge and/or jury.

The way to remove President Barack Hussein Obama II from the White House is to defeat him at the polls in 2012 or have him indicted by a Grand Jury for forgery or fraud, have him impeached by the House of Representatives then tried, convicted and removed from office by a trial in the US Senate. Either/or.


40 posted on 08/05/2009 12:35:32 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: jamese777

There must be photographs taken back then by people living in that area of Obama’s mother and the photograph that would do the trick is one of her in Kenya with Obama in her arms. Baby pictures are typically taken and I would be shocked to find out that Grandma doesn’t have a photo of her with baby Obama.


41 posted on 08/05/2009 2:08:40 PM PDT by knightforhire (Gov Blog thought he talked to an Obama man?)
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It’s really all a moot point. Even if he was born in Hawaii he would still not be a US Citizen. In 1961, BOTH parents had to be US citizens for automatic citizenship. If not, citizenship passed through your father. Too many people are thinking in today’s terms if you are born on US property you are a citizen.

If Lolo Soetoro did adopt BHO, did he give up his parental/custodial rights when BHO got sent back to Hawaii? He allegedly became a Indonesian citizen (because Indonesia at the time did not allow dual citizenship).

And just curious why a 28-year old mother would send back her ten-year old son to live with his grandparents.

What passport did he use to travel back and forth to
Indonesia?

My personal favorite is that Madelyn Dunham and Franklin Marshall Davis or Malcolm X are his real parents. MD was quite the looker back in the day. I see no real physical resemblence between Sr. and Jr.

This is better than any soap opera I could ever write.


42 posted on 08/05/2009 2:13:59 PM PDT by bjorn14
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To: bjorn14

It’s really all a moot point. Even if he was born in Hawaii he would still not be a US Citizen. In 1961, BOTH parents had to be US citizens for automatic citizenship. If not, citizenship passed through your father. Too many people are thinking in today’s terms if you are born on US property you are a citizen.

If Lolo Soetoro did adopt BHO, did he give up his parental/custodial rights when BHO got sent back to Hawaii? He allegedly became a Indonesian citizen (because Indonesia at the time did not allow dual citizenship).

And just curious why a 28-year old mother would send back her ten-year old son to live with his grandparents.

What passport did he use to travel back and forth to
Indonesia?

My personal favorite is that Madelyn Dunham and Franklin Marshall Davis or Malcolm X are his real parents. MD was quite the looker back in the day. I see no real physical resemblence between Sr. and Jr.

This is better than any soap opera I could ever write


WRONG!
The 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
If Obama was born in Honolulu then he’s a natural born citizen. If a person is born in a state of the union, his parents have no legal effect on his/her citizenship.


43 posted on 08/05/2009 3:59:44 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: TheCipher
People are missing the point on this one. It doesn't matter whether it is real or not. What we now have are two conflicting pieces of digital evidence ( Obamas COLB and the Kenyan BC ). The only way for the judge in CA to resolve this is to order discovery of the actual hard copies from Hawaii ( he can have the State Department request them from Kenya, but in all reality, they don't have to comply ). The main reason for producing this document now is to force production of the Hawaii BC.

It goes further than that, it appears that one of the two documents is a forgery (if not both). Since Orly has a pending case in Federal court, if the document/photo of document is a forgery, it very possible the person who falsified the document could be prosecuted for Obstruction of Justice, thus warranting a complete investigation,

Title 18 § 1519.USC Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy How Current is This? Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

44 posted on 08/05/2009 10:48:14 PM PDT by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: rolling_stone

A) The Bomford document is an obvious fake. It has been THOROUGHLY debunked by seriously committed FReepers and many others, even though the Left is still all over the place claiming that it is authentic.

B) Nothing has been discovered that debunks the Taitz-produced document. And many have tried.


45 posted on 08/05/2009 11:11:48 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Just say NO to national socialism!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Bump for later reading...


46 posted on 08/06/2009 7:17:22 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Taitz document is still standing, and this is a shock to me. (I originally thought he was born in Hawaii, but I thought he was Kenyan anyway because his Father is Kenyan. So this document still standing is shocking to me.)

This is the only document that gives us an actual birthplace.

Barring any further developments that may invalidate this document, Our president was born in the city of Mombasa Kenya, and is a native born Kenyan.

To me, its good to know. I feel we are getting close to closure and the truth. He's a Kenyan in every sense of the word.

His trip to Kenya after being elected a US congressman now makes perfect sense. He returned home to flaunt his success in his native country. The only way this document get debunked is if Obama shows his hand. Thats why the press is now going nutz trying to smear Taitz.

47 posted on 08/06/2009 8:03:40 AM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: steve-b
can't find where the article provides an example of a known genuine Kenyan birth certificate from that date

On Orly's site (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/) you will find a very persuasive letter from a Kenyan born about the same time as Obama indicating that their documents are amazingly similar, with both actually signed by the same E.F. Lavender. Surely, the email could have been concocted, but to me it reads very authentic:

“I happen to be Kenyan. I was born 1 month before Obama at Mombasa medical center. I am a teacher here at the MM Shaw Primary School in Kenya. I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put on by Taitz and mine is exactly the same. I even have the same registrar and format. The type is identical. I am by nature a skeptical person. I teach science here and challenge most things that cannot be proven. So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964. The reason the date on the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the “copy” of the original was ordered. I stress the word “copy.” My copy also has republic of Kenya.”

48 posted on 08/06/2009 9:22:45 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: nikos1121
Where he did get ALL THIS MONEY to out finance Hillary?

Have you ever heard of Khalid Mansour (a black American who changed his name to sound Arabic)? He is incredibly well-connected to Arab wealth and has long been a benefactor of BHO.

49 posted on 08/06/2009 9:26:43 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: Fractal Trader

“The lurkers support me in e-mail....”


50 posted on 08/06/2009 9:38:13 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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