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Producers vs. Expropriators: America’s Coming Civil War?
The Atlas Society - The Center for Objectivism ^ | 4/13/2010 | Edward Hudgins

Posted on 04/14/2010 9:30:46 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins

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To: Pollster1

It is anyone’s guess about whether succession could be accomplished with or without bloodshed. If the union does break up, I hope you are right.
However, it is open to question whether our current crop of Leftists are completely averse to the use of force. Many of the 0bomunists are great admirers of Mao, not exactly an advocate of non-violent change. Rahm Emanuel and 0bama himself have alluded to the creation of some type of federal paramilitary force. 0bama is not pragmatic, he is decidedly provocative when dealing with his opposition.
The closest parallel for the 0bama regime I can find in history seems to be Lenin and the Russian revolution. Lenin was a true blue ideologue. His favorite scapegoat was the bourgeoisie. To gain support among the public and soldiers, he urged an immediate end to the war with Germany. He manipulated elections to gain control of the Duma from the moderates. After seizing power, Lenin signed a disastrous treaty with Germany that ceded 1/3 of European Russia to Germany in 1917. This allowed him to deal with his enemies at home and consolidate power. In fact, the Russian revolution in 1917 was the easy part. The real bloodbath occurred in the civil war which persisted well into the 1920s.
The only thing I can say unfortunately is that we suffer from the curse of living in interesting times.


41 posted on 04/14/2010 12:06:19 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est)
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To: Billthedrill

“Heinlein stated that the villain in a story never considers himself a bad guy, and I think he was mistaken. There are villains who know perfectly well they’re bad guys and revel in it. Hate will do that. Hate codified as political doctrine will do that. And that’s what we’re facing.”

Yes, unfortunately you are correct. I have met some real hateful leftists in my time.


42 posted on 04/14/2010 12:07:03 PM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: flowerplough
You wrote: "Please ditch your skin-color generalities, Red. The rest of you stuff sticks, but color of skin does not individually make us collectivist, or suburban, or capitalist."

Well they are all 'generalities' aren't they? I mean just because someone lives in the city doesn't imply much about their politics either.

In fact, if we took the cardinal sin of the coming conflict to be support for Obama you could not find a more nearly perfect corrilation than "having black skin". If you equated them, you would be right more than 19 out of 20 times. If you equated "blue state resident" you would be right less than 12 out of 20 times.

And regardless of analysis like this, once actual fighting starts (if it ever does, which I hope it does not) history tells us that 'factor 2' will outweigh all other factors by orders of magnitude. That's not fair, it's not right, but it's still likely to be the case.

Which is another good reason I hope and pray we pull back and find a peacefull way out of this.

43 posted on 04/14/2010 2:07:24 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Travis McGee
NO PITY FOR THE LAZY!!!
44 posted on 04/14/2010 2:38:38 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

One thing is for sure. Things cannot continue in the direction that they are going now without something breaking.


45 posted on 04/14/2010 2:54:07 PM PDT by sport
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To: CodeToad

We are already in one. The other side is warring and we are being civil.


46 posted on 04/14/2010 2:56:13 PM PDT by sport
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To: MrB

“It won’t be a fight to control the central government, it will be a fight to free ourselves from it.”

Just like in 1775 and 1861. Won the first, lost the second.


47 posted on 04/14/2010 3:00:17 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

BLOAT...


48 posted on 04/14/2010 3:21:48 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus sayin')
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To: Travis McGee

As we all hear occasionaly...BLOAT...


49 posted on 04/14/2010 3:23:09 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus sayin')
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To: Ed Hudgins

One of my favorites...


50 posted on 04/14/2010 3:24:52 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus sayin')
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To: flowerplough

In the absence of any order whatsoever, people are reduced to the lowest basest motives and actions. Race is down there among them. I think it would be foolish to rule out race as a motive in a situation of pure chaos.


51 posted on 04/14/2010 4:31:50 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: sport

europe is still kicking. We’ve got quite a few years to go yet before we are at a european like situation.


52 posted on 04/14/2010 4:34:28 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Billthedrill
Atlas Shrugged of course was a novel and not meant to be a real depiction of the actual timeline of how long it might take a statist regime to collapse. It took the Soviet Union some 70 years. Countries can limp along for a long time on the capital of the past. Rand said she wrote Atlas in hopes that it wouldn't happen. Let's hope Americans can head it off!
53 posted on 04/15/2010 7:54:06 AM PDT by Ed Hudgins (Rand fan)
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To: Ed Hudgins
And while we’re at it, let’s all re-read “Moon Is A Harsh Mistress,” Heinlein’s ultimate libertarian book!

Mike for President!
54 posted on 04/15/2010 8:02:34 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

So you’re saying this is an opportunity?


55 posted on 04/15/2010 8:04:52 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: flowerplough

“.... but color of skin does not individually make us collectivist, or suburban, or capitalist.”

####

Yeah, sure melanin content does not dictate perspective or philosophy.

However, cultural mores as dictated by race certainly DO.

The original point on race was valid and highly apropos.


56 posted on 04/15/2010 8:07:35 AM PDT by EyeGuy
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To: Republic of Texas
So you’re saying this is an opportunity?

Only for the survivors.

57 posted on 04/15/2010 8:24:08 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (FYBO: Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: Billthedrill
Rand avoided the real-world question: could you still hold out if the government held a gun to your children's heads?

Waaaaay too few guv agents to directly threaten the number of kids involved here. And the few that might be so as to "provide an example" to the rest of the population to keep them in line? Going Galt would be the VERY last thing on the parents mind.

A “starve `em out” ploy will be met with the “vote `em out” solution. Parenting goes right on by democrat or republican.

The "just following orders" crowd had best tread lightly with this scenario.

58 posted on 04/15/2010 8:18:56 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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