Posted on 04/30/2011 10:00:22 AM PDT by pinochet
The American founding father and second President, John Adams, said that "The American Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other".
Some foreign countries have tried adopting the US Constitution to govern their nations, but the process has been a disastrous failure. This is because those nations were not founded on bibilical Christianity. When you reflect on it, the idea of the First Ammendment is potentially dangerous. It gives everyone the right to shout the F-word in public, in the presence of children.
The second ammendment provides even more potential for danger. If all adults have access to guns, what is there to prevent people from shooting each other? The founding fathers opposed gun control, but they believed in a greater force that could control the gun owner, to prevent him from misusing his second ammendment rights. Colonial America was ruled by the Mayflower Compact, from 1620 to 1776. The compact dedicated America to "the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith".
You don’t have to inform us of anything, so stop being insulting. The Constitution is the law and defense of our freedom, not the Bible. Which version of the Bible would you pick? Which denomination? Which religious leader’s or preacher’s preference of interpretation would you impose on the rest of us?
While separation of church and state is not defined in the false terms which the democrats prefer to use, the Constitution does proscribe that there will be no state religion. This was wisely set up by the founding fathers to ensure that no particular religion or denomination would be forced on our citizens as the basis of law.
To say that the Bible should be put forth as the defense of our freedoms is no different than a muslim saying that sharia law and the koran would best defend our freedoms. The Constitution has some basis in biblical writings and the Christian Bible derives directly from the Jewish Old Testament and many of those concepts have proven basis in older religions and cultures that predate Old Testament tradition.
The Constitution gives us the force of law to defend freedom. John Adams was a great man, but he and Jefferson were precluded by the framers from taking part in the drafting of the Constitution because of both their secular and religious views that might have been in opposition to the framework the Constitutional framers gave us.
I have spent my adult life sworn to defend the Constitution which details and preserves our freedoms. I did not swear to support and defend the Bible, the koran or any other religious dogma. I swore to support a document of laws that defend your right to subscribe to any religious belief you want, or none.
Your implication that if we are not bound to one or more of the various Christian views of morality or the view of the Bible you subscribe to that we cannot be good Americans who support the Constitution and the freedoms given to all of us in the Constitution. Your proposal would supplant some or all constitutional law with a religious document.
You owe many of us an apology.
Actually, that is exactly my problem with those who want to mix up religion and state. They open the doors to Moslems and will make the US like UK. This is why I support atheists on this point. Zero tolerance is best as long as government too is not allowed to infringe on religious rights.
:-) You and I get it. There are others here who do not understand. That is why I laid it out.
Long before the Revolutionary period, the original colonies were primarily founded on religious freedom not available in Europe. Most early colonists came to the New World to escape religious persecution. You and your ilk want to bring persecution back.
Today, Christianity, as a broad religious category, is the largest religion in the world, with some 2.1 billion adherents. Yet Christianity is not a single, homogenous organized religion, but approximately 38,000 denominations. Which one, in your mind, is the right one to govern these United States? Hmmmm?
I was raised a Roman Catholic -- you know, the first, original version of Christianity. Yet some fundamentalist Protestants try to claim Roman Catholicism is a "cult." Laughable, considering that over half the Christians in the world -- about 1.2 billion -- are Catholics. The overwhelming majority, about 1.1 billion of them are Roman Catholics.
There are about 670 million Protestants in the world, with the so-called Modern Protestantism churches being the largest group (about 250 million). The various Baptist denominations combined are the next largest group (about 100 million), followed by Lutherans, Methodists, and Reformed churches (each about 75 million). The various Eastern Orthodox churches combined have about 274 million believers. Anglicans, Restorationism, Unitarians, and assorted others combined have about 120 million.
So again, which version of Christianity would you have govern these United States? Would you bother to protect the other versions, let alone non-Christian religions, agnostics and atheists?
Oh, and there is nothing dangerous about the United States Constitution to those who value freedom and each individual's God-given right to exercise that free will Christians insist we all have.
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge,
about to jump off. So I ran over and said, “Stop! don’t do it!”
“Why shouldn’t I?” he said.
I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!”
He said, “Like what?”
I said, “Well...are you religious or atheist?”
He said, “Religious.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?”
He said, “Christian.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?”
He said, “Baptist!”
I said, “Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?”
He said, “Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed
Baptist Church of God?”
He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God!”
I said, “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879,
or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?”
He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!”
I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.
Not trying to start something here, but the Roman Catholic church with its pope simply did not exist before the second or third century AD.
The original church was a group of Jewish believers who split from the false religion being taught be the Jewish authorities of that time to follow the true Messiah.
Constitution hands down!
Well, this “separation” clause does not prevent Bush, Zero and Democrates from embracing climate change religions and islam... you know, sort of cool to condition people of the cities into concentration camp tombs, making them believe man made famine is due to “global warming”.
It’s not the state which can separate religion, but the Bible doeth separate itself from the state. This is what irks them the most.They cannot stand that their perversions settles them for a limited time in a limited age when others have eons of good inheritence ready to praise them.
Murder and feeling more intelligent, leading to empowerment, is the cult of these death dealers and losers.
A hearty bravo to your excellent post. With the exception of the above statement, I completely agree with you. May I gently pick one small nit regarding regarding the historical inaccuracy of the above? Adams and Jefferson were both in Europe at the time the Constitution was written. In 1785, Adams had been appointed Minister to Great Britain, and Jefferson Minister to France under the by the Continental Congress. They were our new nation's first official ambassadors (although Benjamin Franklin was our first unofficial ambassador-at-large in Europe prior to the Revolution). The Constitution was written two years later, in 1787.
It isn’t which, the real question is who.
What KIND of people allow for freedom? A moral people do. IF we had a moral foundation, it won’t matter which document is the better defender. IF you have an immoral foundation, like killing babies, uneven enforcement of laws, and fascism, NEITHER document will matter. Because an immoral people will twist EITHER to its desire. Or vote for those who will steal the most from others.
Case in point, the Ozombie in the White Hut.
Morality is the foundation this country was founded on, not a certain document.
Hahahaha, funny...I love when humor can be used to make or reinforce an important point. Thank you. :)
Amen and amen.
Absolutely wrong. The Lord Jesus Christ, himself, made Simon Peter the first head of His church (i.e., the first pope).
Matthew 16:18, And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
It is the "Roman" church because St. Peter, the head of the church, went to Rome and was martyred there. Historical evidence does show that Peter did go to Rome and exercised his authority as head of the Apostles from there. The earliest Christians provided plenty of documentation in this regard.
“... but the Roman Catholic church with its pope simply did not exist before the second or third century AD.”
St. Peter would beg to differ with you on that. He was, after all, a contemporary of Jesus Christ, who made him the first pope.
James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 20 June 1785
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions43.html
“They cannot stand that their perversions settles them for a limited time in a limited age when others have eons of good inheritence ready to praise them.”
Translation please.
James Madison addressed this point. He attributed religious liberty in the United States not to any inherent qualities of Christianity, but to the multiplicity of sects.
Happily for the states, they enjoy the utmost freedom of religion. This freedom arises from that multiplicity of sects, which pervades America, and which is the best and only security for religious liberty in any society. For where there is such a variety of sects, there cannot be a majority of any one sect to oppress and persecute the rest.
James Madison, Virginia Ratifying Convention 12 June 1788
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions49.html
Sorry, the head of the church is Christ. The apostles recognized no other head, nor should any other Christian.
"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." Galatians 2:11
At best, Peter is an Apostle and the steward of the Church. Also, Peter could not even be a priest in the RC Church today, since he was married.
"And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her." Luke 4:38
(Here, Peter is referred to by his given name, Simon. This is the first mention of Peter in Luke. In Luke 5, Simon is also referred to as both Simon and Simon Peter.)
Furthermore, it was not Peter who established churches in Asia Minor, it was Paul. Paul, on his own authority, sent Timothy to preach and set-up elders. No mention of his conferring with Peter to get his blessing.
Quite simply, the elevation of the Roman Primate to Pope would not have occurred if Constantine did not convert to Christianity.
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