Posted on 08/23/2011 4:34:15 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
The debate on the intentions of Glenn Beck and other Christian evangelicals rages on, and Dr. Gadi Eshel, a Land of Israel activist, told Arutz 7 Tuesday that while he did not believe that Beck's intentions were improper, rejecting the friendship of evangelicals could cause anti-Semitism.
Eshel was responding to comments by Jerusalem City Council member Mina Fenton Monday, who voiced vociferous opposition to Beck's appearance in Jerusalem on Wednesday, saying that his rally was designed to encourage missionary activity. Eshel told Arutz 7 that Christians like Beck supported Israel because they were strong believers in the Bible, and not out of missionary reasons.
“The basic belief of Christians like Beck is that the Torah and Tanach are divine in nature and precede the Christian Gospels. This is different than the beliefs of traditional Christians, like Roman Catholics, and even Episcopalians, who participate in boycotts against Israel,” he said.
As such, Eshel said, rejecting the friendship offered unconditionally by Beck and evangelicals in general would be the ultimate in ingratitude.
“Such ingratitude would be an act of suicide,” he said. “This could cause great damage potentially. The paranoia and automatic negative reaction has the potential to cause a great wave of anti-Semitism.” With all the concerns about the rise of radical Islam and the isolation of Israel even by the U.S., Eshel says, “spitting at and rejecting Israel's most loyal friends would truly be an act of suicide.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
We were in Israel 10 years ago, on pilgrimage, as strong Christians. We met with some Christians there, just for dinner. They said it was terribly difficult for Christians to live in Jerusalem (and Israel, I presume), or to get permission to stay for more than 2 months. They said there was strong anti-Christian feeling in Israel and the laws themselves reflected this.
I think the Jews are shooting themselves in the foot to reject Christians as brothers and supporters. This article mentions Catholics being anti-Israel? I’ll just say, they are ignorant as well. Judaism is the root, Israel is our Christian homeland, in some way. And there are LOTS of enemies.
Thank you — Gay Pagans DID put them in the ovens.
Isn’t ‘paranoid and negative reaction’ referring to the Jews rejecting Beck’s and the Christians’ attention and support of Israel? And that THAT could have a negative impact on Israel?
The if he became Pontiff, he could have declared any religion the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Because the Pope accepted the title of Pontiff, he by doing so accepted the authority of Rome over the Roman Catholic Church ... at least in Hitlers twisted view.
Each of the original apostles had arrangements and agreements with these nation states. Control the states ... you are able to invoke the agreement.
Anyways, that was what he was trying to do .... to what end though , there are only theories and Hitler’s own writings.
That ship sailed a long time ago, back when this spectrum was created, the modern left wasn’t around and at least in theory the old left didn’t control history or education.
What ever the logic, no one successfully put forward a forceful and logical argument against it.
So it is what became the default understanding of the political spectrum. All we can do is deal with it.
I don’t like it either, but facts are facts,
I have to communicate to these people and the fact is .. Fascism is on the right with these people and is the globally accepted definition.
I have to to be able to reach out to these people and don’t want them to slam the door in my face when I tell them the sky isn’t blue it is purple.
Like I said before, regardless whether you agree or disagree, this ship sailed a long time ago.
As soon as you agree that you are a right winger, at least in the eyes of Jews, you have declared yourself on the side of the political spectrum with Hitler.
BS I know, but you aren’t going to be able to redefine things to the way you would like them like the left does. You just have to deal with it.
Any other group, you many be able to have the conversation we are having. Don’t try it with the Jewish people, they aren’t going to hear you.
Bunker Mentality
“Ok! Here we go again!! No. Gay pagans put them in ovens, not Christians”
If you say so. But Hitler sure was a baptized former alter boy, confirmed Roman Catholic. (Last I checked, baptism was permanent sealing, if you accept Roman Catholic doctrine. It was certainly sufficinet grounds to kidnap Jewish children from their homes.)
And the Nazis sure were waiving Martin Luthers “On Jews and Their Lies” book when they rallied. It was a blueprint for the Final Solution, down to confiscation of property, prison camps, and finally murder.
Sorry, as a Christian I am shamed by these actions.
And I agree a lot of the lead Nazis were pagans.
But most of the Nazis who followed who just Christian anti-semites.
“somehow equating evangelical or any form of christianity with national socialism shows a lack of understanding about the philosophy, teachings and goals of the two world views. “
To me and you, sure.
But to outsiders, they just saw gentiles marching under a twisted cross, using Martin Luther’s teachings as the moral reason to kill them.
That I understand. It is what it is. However, I would recommend you make a distinction with these people between fascism and national socialism.
Jews don't have a great historic issue with Franco, or Mussolini. Their issue is with Hitler. Here's my point, Hitler never refers to himself, or his movement as fascist/fascism. It's always National Socialist/National Socialism.
The label fascist in reference to the nazis was applied by the Soviets. Rallying the Soviet Socialist populace to rise up against the National Socialist invaders was problematic due to the socialist being part of both sides names. Similarly, the National Socialists always refer to the Soviets as Bolsheviks, or Communists. Both sides attempted to downplay the fact that the Eastern Front was a war between socialists.
I have gotten traction when pointing out that the nazis never refer to themselves as fascists.
By the time of Hitler, Germany if not already post-Christian was solidly on the path. Never-the-less, one still had to declare a religion and yes, most nazis had at some time in the past declared themselves Catholic or Protestant due to the law requiring them to do so probably because the only other checkbox on the form was Jewish.
“Christians didn’t put them in the ovens.”
Sadly, many of the Nazis were Christians.
“Nazism and Christians are not the same.”
I know that. You know that. The victims don’t.
“Are you a Mormon?”
No, as stated, I am a Christian. Last I checked, mormons were not Christian.
Since we’re asking personal questions: are you a moron?
“Ahem. The nazis were occultists.”
Some, sure.
But sadly, the rank-and-file were Roman Catholic or Lutheran.
That might work with some Russian Jews.
I worked for a Jewish Family from Western Europe when I was growing up. The younger ones seemed pretty well grounded in US Definitions while at the same time understanding their parents.
Their parents wouldn’t talk to anyone they thought was right wing, or deal with anyone who did.
It was like their way to get back at the Hitler and the prosecution they went through though the shunning of that element of society they perceived as taking part.
Their children had to follow what their parents believed otherwise they would find themselves outside the family ostracized.
“You put Jews in ovens because you are a Christian?”
No, and I never said that.
Look, I know what the Nazis were, and so do you.
But they sure cloaked themselves in the banner of Christiandom. Hitler used his Roman Catholic upbringing to his advantage when he could.
Martin Luther WROTE the seven-step plan for the Final Solution.
And the Nazis waived and printed copies of Luther’s anti-semitic tracks as part-and-parcel of their agenda.
And rank-and-file Nazis sure were Christians.
Now, I know what the Nazis did was un-Christian.
Yes, they literally took Christ’s name in vain when doing evil things in Christ’s name.
But, as Christians, we have to own up to what was done (wrongfully) in the name of our Savior, Jesus Christ, by these evil men.
And with that understanding, we can understand why Jewish people -— logically -— mistrust us.
“Waall, I’ll be hornswoggled! I thought the warriors that destroyed and defeated the oven-stokers were basically Christians, citizens of a basically Christian nation and motivated to a significant degree by an essentially Christian mindset.”
I don’t disagree with you, at all.
I am attempting to explain why many Jewish people mistrust us, and the more-or-less 2000 years of treating them like crap has taken a toll.
Closer to the truth that Christians let their dislike or even hatred of the Jews allow them to stand by while the Nazis stripped Jews of their properties, their liberties and finally even their lives. This along with their own fear of the Nazis. Fear is the great enabler of injustice.
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