Posted on 12/28/2011 5:32:30 AM PST by the scotsman
'Five thousand Irish soldiers who swapped uniforms to fight for the British against Hitler went on to suffer years of persecution.
One of them, 92-year-old Phil Farrington, took part in the D-Day landings and helped liberate the German death camp at Bergen-Belsen - but he wears his medals in secret.
Even to this day, he has nightmares that he will be arrested by the authorities and imprisoned for his wartime service. "They would come and get me, yes they would," he said in a frail voice at his home in the docks area of Dublin. And his 25-year-old grandson, Patrick, confirmed: "I see the fear in him even today, even after 65 years."
Mr Farrington's fears are not groundless. He was one of about 5,000 Irish soldiers who deserted their own neutral army to join the war against fascism and who were brutally punished on their return home as a result.
They were formally dismissed from the Irish army, stripped of all pay and pension rights, and prevented from finding work by being banned for seven years from any employment paid for by state or government funds.
A special "list" was drawn up containing their names and addresses, and circulated to every government department, town hall and railway station - anywhere the men might look for a job. It was referred to in the Irish parliament - the Dail - at the time as a "starvation order", and for many of their families the phrase became painfully close to the truth.'
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...
Merry Christmas! Not belated at all! We’re still in the season of Christmas for some days yet! :)
Firstly, my paternal great-great-great grandmother’s family, who were Protestant Ulstermen and women of Scottish descent (the family had emigrated from Lowland Scotland to NI in the early 1600’s), returned to Scotland in 1850 BECAUSE of the Famine.
So dont dare tell me that I am laughing at anything.
Secondly, there is no denial. What I am doing is to rightly criticise your ludicrously simplistic version of the Irish Famine. To say Britain ‘feasted’, when most of Britain in that time were poor people who had little to eat themselves, is laughable, and shows you have no knowledge of Britain or Ireland.
You probably think I cant access the internet without permission from the Queen. And that I know Sean Connery and Paul McCartney personally. Or that the Irish wear kilts and DO live in little bog huts on windy moors.
No, nobody did, but equally the idea and myth that Britain deliberately starved 1.5m people (oh, and that all the dead were Catholic Irish and thats why it happened) is a nonsense. Your comparison to the Homodomor for example is ridiculous.
Michael Sheane’s book on the Famine is very good, as it studies the famine area by area (Tyrone, Donegal etc), and also is a book that looks at the forgotten Protestant deaths of the Famine.
You wrote:
“No, nobody did, but equally the idea and myth that Britain deliberately starved 1.5m people (oh, and that all the dead were Catholic Irish and thats why it happened) is a nonsense.”
Who here is suggesting any of that? Not me.
“Your comparison to the Homodomor for example is ridiculous.”
I made no comparison. I said it reminded me of it. Here, in fact, is EXACTLY what I said since you seem to be struggling with basic reading comprehension: “There’s no getting around the fact that Ireland was a net exporter of food for those years, and that food was carted away for sale in Britain under armed guards. It reminds me of Stalin’s policies in Ukraine in the 1930s.”
Here, for your disliking, is more of a comparison:
Ireland = forced net exporter of food during a famine.
Ukraine = forced net exporter of food during a famine.
Ireland = food shipped out of country under armed guard.
Ukraine = food shipped out of country under armed guard.
Now, that is certainly more of a comparison so go ahead and get your panties all in a twist. Just remember, everything I said is absolutely true and completely irrefutable. If you can refute either of the two “comparisons” above do so. Otherwise, keep failing in whatever idiotic activity it is you are attempting. I honestly have no idea what you’re doing other than embarrassing yourself. Perhaps you’re good at that.
“Michael Sheane’s book on the Famine is very good, as it studies the famine area by area (Tyrone, Donegal etc), and also is a book that looks at the forgotten Protestant deaths of the Famine.”
I don’t doubt for a second that Protestants may have starved to death. I also don’t doubt for a second that some Protestant controlled aid agencies forced Catholics to choose between renouncing their faith and starving to death. That’s a lot more sinister than people simply starving to death.
See, again, Christine Kinealy, The Hidden Famine: Hunger, Poverty and Sectarianism in Belfast 1840-1850, pp. 136-137.
I though I would quote the words that caught your attention. So tell me, where did the exported livestock go? Schlesweig Holstein? Were the wagons accompanied by the Papal Swiss Guard? So congradulations for setting up a straw man and knocking it down - "Oliver Twist" didn't feast, the workhouse owner did. Woopeee!
And I will dare tell you or any other punk whatever I please, especially when it is richly deserved. Your the one who brought the specter of laughing at a genicode save for a clear showing of murderous intent - not me. You shame your ancestors.
The very words you use show denial. The potato blight impacted production throught Europe, while millions died only in Ireland - hardly a "famine."
1—I didnt say YOU said that. It was a general point.
2-Instead of patronising other freepers, which is certainly something you are good at (I have argued with you before and read you in threads I havent taken part in), and in my case because of my supposed inability to read and comprehend, perhaps you should take a look at your posts, and how they are constructed and read to other freepers.
The reference to the Ukrainian famine could easily be read as you making a comparison between historical events.
But rather than look at how you post, I understand that you find it easier to simply patronise people, as you seem to have a very high regard for yourself and your intellect.
In all the time I have been on FR, which now nearly 8 years under two names, I frankly have never seen you admit error, even when others have clearly corrected your statements or facts. You come across as incredibly arrogant and extremely patronising, and more importantly infallible and that every other freeper is rather below you.
You wrote:
“The reference to the Ukrainian famine could easily be read as you making a comparison between historical events.”
So? You mean there might be something wrong with making the starving nations net exporters of food and carting away food needed for starving people under guard might have been wrong in both cases? Gee.
“But rather than look at how you post, I understand that you find it easier to simply patronise people, as you seem to have a very high regard for yourself and your intellect.”
Get out of your basement. Take a walk. Kiss a girl. Get over yourself. You don’t think that your comment about having read about the famine in school might not be viewed as “patronising”? Worse than not seeing the obvious, you’re a hypocrite.
“In all the time I have been on FR, which now nearly 8 years under two names, I frankly have never seen you admit error,”
When I make one, I admit it. I don’t make many. If you haven’t seen me admit error, then you haven’t read enough.
“even when others have clearly corrected your statements or facts.”
Again, when I make a mistake, I admit it. I make very, very few errors about history.
“You come across as incredibly arrogant and extremely patronising, and more importantly infallible and that every other freeper is rather below you.”
I really don’t care how I come across. I just care about getting my facts right about history. And generally I’ve done that. If you can’t stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
My great uncle was killed at the Somme in France in 1917.
He joined the British Army in Dublin as did thousands of his fellow Irishmen to fight against the Germans.
Sadly if he would have survived WWI he would have undergone massive hate against him by the Irish when he returned from the war.
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