Skip to comments.Loose cable blamed for speedy neutrinos
Posted on 03/06/2012 1:16:25 AM PST by U-238
Faulty wiring has been proposed as the glitch that caused a European physics experiment to clock particles flying faster than light.
Scientists at Italys OPERA experiment reported in September that nearly weightless particles called neutrinos were apparently traveling from the CERN laboratory on the Swiss-French border to an underground detector in Italy, 730 kilometers away, faster than the speed of light. The apparent violation of Einsteins theory of special relativity immediately produced a chorus of theorists offering reasons why neutrinos simply could not be going that fast (SN: 11/5/11, p. 10).
It was always clear to me that the results could not have been true, says Nobel Prize-winner Sheldon Glashow, a physicist at Boston University and an early critic of the finding.
Yet during a second run of the experiment in November, neutrinos again appeared to arrive in Italy 60 nanoseconds earlier than light covering the same distance in a vacuum would have (SN: 10/22/11, p. 18).
On February 23 the OPERA team announced what might be causing the surprising observations: A bad connection with a cable that relays satellite GPS signals to keep the experiments clocks in sync could have made each particles trip seem to take less time than it actually did.
(Excerpt) Read more at sciencenews.org ...
It was always clear to me that the results could not have been true,
And why is that?
I was also an early critic.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
shhhh don’t let the LENR folks know.....
Oh...and they have never had to ‘rethink’ their assumptions and/or theories? Only almost always. WHAT moves ‘light’?
I loved the idea of a faster than light, zero mass, infinitely large neutrino bubble digging itself through the heart of southern Europe.
Guess I’ll just have to wait for the real excitement when CERN generates an accidental Black Hole.
your question makes no sense....light has no mass, It is a wave that is produced after the relaxation of a quantized state
Been there...Done that...
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around E=MC2 .
If nothing can go faster than C how does that work?
Can you block it so that it ceases moving?
Don't tell that to Mr. Photon.
Ever shine a flashlight into vacuum jar and start an aluminum vane spinning around?
It’s been proven time and time again that matter CAN go faster than light, the latest example being how the networks covered Rush calling that woman a slut almost before he said it. It’s also been proven that time can come to a standstill, such as when a liberal calls someone a sut and it never gets reported for infinity.
in attempting to create a black hole. the euro scientists assured us the results of their experiments would be contained
Just what have european electricians wrought?
Remembering that humorous graphic of the earth swallowing itself....
It’s about as simple as it gets. You could try
The book only requires a good grasp of high school physics and math. Good luck.
Those toy radiometers have nothing whatsoever to do with radiation pressure, are not in a vacuum and spin counter to the direction of radiation pressure.
The vanes have one side white and the other dark. If the mechanism were radiation pressure, the light recoiling off the white side would exert twice the radiation pressure experienced by the dark side absorbing them. The mechanism is heat, they are tiny heat engines, the dark side is warmed more by the light than the white side and the heated air molecules carry off more momentum on the dark side than the light.
Radiation pressure is also expected from Maxwell’s equations and is consistent with E= mc2. See the wiki link in my post above for Einstein’s correct derivation.
His name is Sheldon...... how could he be wrong?
I remember that as a kid!
But they were so CERNtain. Oh well...time for another Brain Depuckerization Treatment.
It always bugged me when physicists use the figure of speech that photons have no mass. They have energy, and any 9th grade algebra student can prove then that a photon’s mass = E/c^2. Maybe in theory if a photon could be brought to rest it would have no mass, but then it would still have relativistic mass since it is at rest only relative to something else. And while we’re at it, I wish ‘they’ would make up their minds and let us know if gravity is really a force or just an effect of curved space. ‘They’ seem to try to have it both ways on that one all the time too.
—...it would have required a change of our fundamental understanding if how things work...—
Which often is the beginning of new discoveries. :-)
The oddest thing was that the link to it was on the web page from an article on Slate, I thought Slate went kaput
(yes I debugged by computer and killed all the cooties)
It was always clear to me that the results could not have been true,
No doubt, he was expecting them to have to slow down when they turned over the edge of the earth and started across the other side.
Hope the guy realizes that dogma can be like a pit bull.
Graduates from East Anglia sckool of siense.
If you were referring to Michelle, you are correct.
If you were referring to Barack, it is only a half black hole.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
And that effect is cause by the heating of the vane not anything else....Lord you know so little fundamental science
Are you asking me if there is such a thing as a gem block or beam dump? Or is your notion of ‘moving’ merely referring to light’s vibrational frequencies....your choice of words indicate a confusion about science
No doubt but when one hers hoof steps it is important to look for horses before zebras unless you are on the savannas of Africa or at the zoo.
Yes... I stand corrected.
Well, you're at least half right.
I haven't thought about radiometers in 50 years, so, guilty, your honor, I thought they were vacuum sealed, and I thought the motion was caused by photons agitating the electrons in the vane.
As to fundamental science, hmmm, I think I could still crack the top 10 percentile on a standardized test.
I know that photons have no mass, but I always assumed that was a theoretical convenience that allowed them to have properties of both waves and particles.
And, as I recall, it is theoretically impossible for a photon to have zero mass inside a super conductor.
But I'm sure you'll set me straight if I'm mistaken.
It was a success. The “mini” black hole was contained.
We should be discussing modern physics.The term modern physics refers to the post-Newtonian conception of physics. The term implies that classical descriptions of phenomena are lacking, and that an accurate, “modern”, description of reality requires theories to incorporate elements of quantum mechanics or Einsteinian relativity, or both. In general, the term is used to refer to any branch of physics either developed in the early 20th century and onwards, or branches greatly influenced by early 20th century physics. This is what the scientists at CERN are using.
Remember, modern physics is all theoretical.
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The finer point is that a photon is a fundamental quantum particle....it has no mass at rest. The radiometer works because the vanes you mentioned are both dark and light ( usually black and white) and the heating of them is differential which causes the spinning.
Photons have been observed to behave as both particles and waves which is why the duality of light is such a difficult concept to teach to beginning physics students. Theoretical constructs can be useful but this was derived by scientific testing
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