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African-American Christians waver over vote - struggle with gay marriage and the Mormon religion
Houston Chronicle ^ | September 16, 2012

Posted on 09/17/2012 1:44:42 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

...[Rev. Jamal-Harrison] Bryant [of Baltimore] last month told The Washington Informer, an African-American newsweekly, "This is the first time in black church history that I'm aware of that black pastors have encouraged their parishioners not to vote." Bryant, who opposes gay marriage, said the president's position on marriage is "at the heart" of the problem.

...The circumstances of the 2012 campaign have led to complex conversations about faith, politics and voting.

The Rev. George Nelson Jr., senior pastor of Grace Fellowship Baptist Church in Brenham, Texas, participated in a conference call with other African-American pastors the day after Obama's announcement during which the ministers resolved to oppose gay marriage. Nelson said Obama's statement had caused a "storm" in the African-American community.

Still, he said "I would never vote for a man like Romney," because Nelson has been taught in the Southern Baptist Convention that Mormonism is a cult.

As recently as the 2008 GOP primaries, the SBC's Baptist Press ran articles calling the LDS church a cult. This year, however, prominent Southern Baptists have discouraged use of the term when addressing theological differences with Mormonism. Many Southern Baptist leaders have emphasized there are no religious obstacles to voting for a Mormon.

Nelson planned to vote and has told others to do the same. He declined to say which candidate he would support.

"Because of those that made sacrifices in days gone by and some greater than others with their lives. It would be totally foolish for me to mention staying away from the polls," he said in an email exchange.........

(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012election; blackvote; christianvote; churchleaders; ldschurch; marriage; pastors; race; religion; sbc; vote
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This is a much longer article with a lot of positions discussed and quotes given.

It is important for voters to read it ALL.

A lot of this will effect the election and whether we have the next 4 years of an Obama reign or not.

Earlier posts here and here.

1 posted on 09/17/2012 1:44:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Chicago Black Community Confirm: those closest to Obama know there is no second term coming
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2931002/posts

US blacks fear lingering racism if Obama loses
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2926331/posts


2 posted on 09/17/2012 2:02:10 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If Obama loses and there are no riots and instead an orderly transfer of power, don’t see any racial implications. Whites elected him in the first place.


3 posted on 09/17/2012 2:06:43 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Here in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, NC, the “passive aggressive” non-vote is winning.

I believe Romney/Ryan will win, but largely due to the folks that LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) by not voting.

This means that a vote for Romney counts as two votes at the margin, since there are far fewer pro-Obama votes.

We must defeat Obama to save America.


4 posted on 09/17/2012 2:16:31 AM PDT by Andy from Chapel Hill
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

There is a special place in Hell for these “pastors” who have led their people to the slaughter at the hands of Planned Parenthood. Now they cavil about gay marriage? And they are anti-Mormon bigots, to boot.


5 posted on 09/17/2012 2:25:18 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Wish they would watch that video message by Ravi Zacharias:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWLzHt8ImyE&feature=youtu.be

posted 9/12
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2930081/posts


6 posted on 09/17/2012 2:26:57 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Arthur McGowan

There are many pastors, and they certainly don’t all agree - as evidenced by this article.


7 posted on 09/17/2012 2:29:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill
Here in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, NC, the “passive aggressive” non-vote is winning.

And before Nov 6 rolls around some will decide to vote Romney-Ryan.

8 posted on 09/17/2012 2:33:35 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TurkeyLurkey

From your video link: Ravi Zacharias answers an audience question - Is Mormonism a cult? Azcharias proceeds to give the classic definition of what cult means and then moves to talking about the idea of choosing to vote for someone based on their religion. He conveys that in politics when faced with choosing a leader, pick the one who will give the nation the best moral soil to look for Christ. He cautions that we should use the term “cult” wisely, mindful that with “Jim Jones, etc” it comes with baggage and loosely used in public it says more than what is intended.

I do not think Obama is the man that Ravi Zacharias will vote for in November.


9 posted on 09/17/2012 2:49:22 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Hmmmm, lets see, sodomites or Christ, sodomites or Christ...yes, I can see where that choice is a real tuffy for a Christian /supersarc!
10 posted on 09/17/2012 2:51:44 AM PDT by Happy Rain (Mitt four then Sarah eight.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Nelson has been taught in the Southern Baptist Convention that Mormonism is a cult.

I'm sure they said the same thing about those Nazarenes back in the day. Get over it already. You can either vote for a man who has been tithing his whole life. Or you can sit back and do nothing while a humanist is granted the last four years he needs to completely destroy this nation. Your choice.

11 posted on 09/17/2012 2:55:41 AM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
He conveys that in politics when faced with choosing a leader, pick the one who will give the nation the best moral soil to look for Christ. . . . I do not think Obama is the man that Ravi Zacharias will vote for in November.

Well said.

12 posted on 09/17/2012 2:57:34 AM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: Happy Rain
Lloyd Marcus: Obama versus Jesus: Black Christians Must Decide "..................Incredibly, some blacks have completely forsaken their Christianity for Obama. A fellow PK(preacher's kid) said her parents recently changed their stance on same-sex marriage in support of their black president. I find this remarkable.

Though I disagree, I have been sympathetic and understanding with black seniors who have suffered dearly, with hearts still bearing scars of racial injustice.

A year or so ago, I hosted the first Black Conservative Press Conference at the National Press Club in D.C. Several prominent black conservatives from numerous black conservative groups/organizations spoke. My brother brought my 84-year-old black dad from Baltimore. That evening, Dad said, "Everything I heard today is true. But, because of racism I suffered in my youth, I can not turn against Obama."

At that time, I respectfully gave my hero, my preacher dad, a pass. Some may criticize me, saying, Lloyd, either you stand for conservatism or you do not. While you may have a valid point, it is in my DNA to respect my parents. How do you respectfully tell your usually character-driven parent that his decision to support Obama, no matter what, is rooted in racism and a refusal to forgive?

But now that Obama has been exposed as the most anti-Christian president in U.S. history, senior black Christians must no longer be given a pass for supporting this man.".......

13 posted on 09/17/2012 3:05:24 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Blacks are so mad, so upset, so outraged...

That they feel they must justify their socialism and racism.

The bottm line is this - If Obama is still black in November, they are still voting for him.


14 posted on 09/17/2012 3:07:40 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan

Many will, but not as many as before.


15 posted on 09/17/2012 3:10:45 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

It is impossible to fathom why the color of Obama’s skin; (which has nothing to do with his heritage as an American) is still the guiding influence for intelligent black voters.

He is not the son of slaves. He was raised a muslim. He was not raised in poverty, but in affluence and uses the poverty of others only to enrich himself. It is not even documented that he attended Church to tithe, do charitable works, or volunteer as a missionary in poor African countries.


16 posted on 09/17/2012 3:31:30 AM PDT by sodpoodle
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Blacks in America have the single largest percentage of racists of any ethnic group that inhabit our nation.


17 posted on 09/17/2012 3:38:02 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Democrats - The Treasonous Pervert Party)
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To: sodpoodle

Obama is more like a “benevolent” overseer - an extension of his “community organizing” heritage that sprang from the roots that you outlined.


18 posted on 09/17/2012 3:40:01 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Dr. Thorne
Blacks in America have the single largest percentage of racists of any ethnic group that inhabit our nation.

That would perhaps be an over simplification. I believe that many have been told that there is only power in numbers (and since the family unit of so many blacks has been destroyed by race baiters and the "great society, "they see their options limited, so look to others for support -- enter socialists who have been pushing their base to this cliff).

19 posted on 09/17/2012 3:44:18 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

20 posted on 09/17/2012 4:06:02 AM PDT by Mormon Cricket
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Yes, thank you, I should have given a synopsis of it, but I was hoping that people would take the time to watch it first-hand for themselves; as you probably read on that thread, few did.

This is the answer to the dilemma many people have, and race has nothing to do with it, nor politics,nor “religion”—it has to do with morality and choosing the one who will “help a nation provide the best moral soil on which the freedom to believe and disbelieve can actually function”...

He goes on to say that if it is an immoral soil, truth is evicted, and there is no opportunity of having a voice in the market place, in the public arena, in politics, in business—all places where the Chrisitian faith ought to have a voice.


21 posted on 09/17/2012 4:09:35 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Anyone who thinks blacks in large numbers will abandon Obama is dreaming.

Except for a very few, black skin trumps religion, economic distress, common sense, disgust over Obama’s advocacy of homosexualism, his lying cheating, stealing, his near total incompetence and his four year record of disaster.

Blacks will still vote at least 90% to 95% for Obama.


22 posted on 09/17/2012 4:12:35 AM PDT by Iron Munro ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Iron Munro

Here at the edge of the Obama Cliff we all meet — all the “tribes” of America herded together at Socialism’s precipice — facing a decision that will preserve liberty or destroy it. I believe this fact will have us joining together (more than ever before) to turn and face down the socialist machine lead by Obama that has worked so hard to keep us in disarray and fighting each other. It’s time to find our common heritage and join forces to stop him.


23 posted on 09/17/2012 4:26:23 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TurkeyLurkey

Sadly, most people do not go to links. I’m glad I did. I always learn something when I do and am more prepared to address misinformation and fight wrong perceptions being put forth on many issues.


24 posted on 09/17/2012 4:29:51 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Re: your post #13, Lloyd Marcus’ quote:

The things he describes they struggle with are no different that what any other person who has been touched by Christ struggles with; they are things that must be denied, for Christ told His disciples (followers) AND those who were not followers, but listening and watching, that in order to follow Him they must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Him. Everything we love more than Him must be relinquished for him, in order to follow Him.

The message was rejected by those who did not want to count the cost, but to those who were given to Him, who believed in Him and the truth that He spoke, it set them free, and it sets us free today.


25 posted on 09/17/2012 4:36:51 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: TurkeyLurkey

Thank you for going to the link and bringing that message back to this thread.


26 posted on 09/17/2012 5:01:43 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I am grateful for the opportunity because I think it is an important message that needs to be heard/seen by everyone.


27 posted on 09/17/2012 5:24:00 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

They aint wavering over anything. They will vote skin color.


28 posted on 09/17/2012 5:28:09 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

We must look deep into our souls to see if Mormons are a cult.....But don’t talk about that bunch that still practices slavery, female sexual mutilation and every air hostage event of the last 40 years. That is a religion of peace!


29 posted on 09/17/2012 5:37:40 AM PDT by When do we get liberated? (A socialist is a communist who realizes he must suck at the tit of Capitalism.)
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To: When do we get liberated?; Cincinatus' Wife

If you are speaking in reference to the video by Zava Zecharias, he is not looking “deep into his soul” to see if Mormonism is a cult, he knows the Word of God.

The issue he speaks of is the deity and sufficiency of Christ. The Trinity and the virgin birth are two other major issues that distinguish cults from orthodox Christianity, or what Jesus Himself teaches, or what the Bible teaches. He is saying this cannot be productively discussed in a general (worldly) forum because of all the baggage (many other added-on doctrines or beliefs) that people have. Thus he is saying, be wise in discussing it.


30 posted on 09/17/2012 7:13:10 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

My black pastor is more conservative than most, but still, the forcefulness of his condemnation of the President’s endorsement of gay marriage surprised me a bit. He was on fire and has mentioned it more than once since June.

I really believe there are people out there who will stay home because of this. Of course, I believed in the PUMAs, too, so YMMV.


31 posted on 09/17/2012 7:16:44 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: TurkeyLurkey; When do we get liberated?

I believe “When do we get liberated?” is pointing out that many pointing to the Mormon religion do so to deflect from (or just ignore) their overt slobbering excuses for and approval given to Islamic terrorism and sharia law.


32 posted on 09/17/2012 7:21:33 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Happy Rain

The bizarre thing is that if Joe Lieberman had gotten the Dem nomination when he ran, he could have counted on about 95% of the black vote, and he doesn’t believe in Jesus. So, a guy who believes different things about Jesus is unqualified, but a guy who doesn’t is just fine? And let’s put aside that they are voting for the nominee of the party of Jefferson, a guy who didn’t believe in the deity of Christ and is often quoted as saying that the preacher has acted against freedom throughout history.

Although the gay/Mormon thing might depress turnout, I think some of this has to do with the fact that unemployment is 14.4 among blacks before you factor in U6, but people don’t want to say Obama screwed up badly for four years, so they say “What? Gay marriage? What the...”


33 posted on 09/17/2012 7:27:56 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Very astute! Very interesting.


34 posted on 09/17/2012 7:33:40 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Iron Munro

Percentage will be the same, but turnout will be lower.


35 posted on 09/17/2012 7:57:51 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Thanks!


36 posted on 09/17/2012 8:02:09 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The coordination of the media this weekend and in particular this morning is staggering.

Romney better go after the media or have some surrogate (ala Gingrich) or a superpac attack the media DRIECTLY and name names.


37 posted on 09/17/2012 8:12:12 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
There's no need to waver or struggle.

Those who support homosexuals are against our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
These anti Christ people only bring destruction on us ALL.
I have NO sympathy for homosexuals!

Homosexuality is a "Mark" of disobedience.
Someone once asked The answer is in the definition of "REPROBATE". And the reason"why" is given in the Bible.

God has a cure for homosexuals.
Our Heavenly Father is clear on the issue.
Either you support EVIL or you DON'T.
You can choose life with Romney, ... or ... death with Obama.
38 posted on 09/17/2012 8:40:44 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

There is nothing bigoted about Christians being against the anti-Christian cult of Mormonism.

You can quit attacking Christianity.


39 posted on 09/17/2012 9:30:50 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: sodpoodle
It is impossible to fathom why the color of Obama’s skin; (which has nothing to do with his heritage as an American) is still the guiding influence for intelligent black voters.

By definition ... for a "black voter", or a "white voter", or a "brown voter", or a "pink with purple polka-dots voter" skin colour is all that matters. Such behaviour is racist ... and I dispute the notion that racism and intelligence in any way go together.

Someone who is a racist voter is NOT also an intelligent voter.

40 posted on 09/17/2012 9:36:01 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Lieberman is Jewish.

Bishop Romney is a leader within a cult founded to mimic Christianity while destroying it and leading Christians to believe that they can become Gods.


41 posted on 09/17/2012 9:41:31 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ArrogantBustard

You are correct, of course. I should have dropped the ‘intelligent’ :)

Politicians who pander to ‘victim ethnic’ groups do all Americans a disservice.

I suppose it is simply impractical to separate and pander to ‘white’ Americans as Poles, Germans, Anglos, French etc., Perhaps because we are Americans first.


42 posted on 09/17/2012 9:50:28 AM PDT by sodpoodle
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To: Mr. Silverback

You have hit upon something there.

Also, the reality is that Christians (that is, believers in Christ) rarely ever have a voting choice between a Christian candidate and non-Christian candidate—it’s never presented in that way, of course. In my 45+ years of voting for any level of office, it’s usually a choice of the “lesser of the two evils.”

For the first time in my voting experience, we in Texas have elected two professing Christians, Bill Flores and Ted Cruz, to public office in significant positions of leadership. It follows that they are Conservatives and moral men. Not only that, they are qualified for the offices to which they were elected. And best of all, they have the blessing of being able to seek and receive wisdom from God, who knows all, sees all, and rules over the heavens, earth, and realm of mankind—something mere moral men (and women) do not have.

There are others elected who do not believe in Jesus, but who are moral men, in the sense that they are against immoral acts that are condemned by God in His Word and historic Judeo-Christian ethics. They would be against homosexuality and abortion. These issues are important to moral people who have the privelege to vote. Beyond that, there are many other issues that are important, but these do seem to be the most prevalent because of the grace of God, and not because we are still a moral society.

I am afraid that since we as a nation have turned our backs on God, that we have become an apathetic people and have reached the point of no return.


43 posted on 09/17/2012 10:45:02 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: ansel12

Lieberman is a person who won’t use public transportation on a Saturday but votes to keep abortion legal.

He is also a person who denies Jesus was the Messiah, and though you may think that’s not as bad as thinking Jesus is the Messiah but thinking other things about him that are weird, we’re in angels dancing on the head of a pin territory here.

The choice this year is between a man who has been faithful and even exemplary in all the things we and Mormons agree on, and a man who is the first gay president and is actively hostile toward freedom of religion.


44 posted on 09/17/2012 11:15:46 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

LOL, you expect Christians to accept Judaism and Mormonism as the same in relation to Christianity? What planet do you live on?

Your cult leader, teacher, missionary, Christian hating whack case who thinks that he is destined to become equal to God, and that he will have his own planet to rule over, and worshipers calling him God and praying to him, is also pro-abortion, and pro-homosexual agenda.

It is amazing (and revealing) that you are using a lifelong democrat liberal and democrat vice-presidential nominee, and recent independent, who has never been a republican, to compare with your republican presidential nominee.

If you know a lot about Mitt Romney and his character, then can you tell us if at this moment (today, right now), is Mitt pro-life, or pro-abortion?

Does Mitt support the GOP party platform on abortion?


45 posted on 09/17/2012 11:43:05 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
LOL, you expect Christians to accept Judaism and Mormonism as the same in relation to Christianity?

No, I expect Christians, when given a choice between a successful CEO from a non-Christian religion and a Marxist clown who claims to be a Christian, to choose the guy who isn't a Marxist. That's all.

It is amazing (and revealing) that you are using a lifelong democrat liberal and democrat vice-presidential nominee, and recent independent,

I was comparing two non-Christians to each other on the basis of how a reliably liberal voting base would respond to them, and I was pointing out that said liberal voting base would support the non-Christian Dem and reject the non-Christian Republican. they would do so if our candidate was Lincoln Chaffee, they would do so if our candidate was Jeff Sessions. Look, if you hate Mitt, hate Mitt, but don't beclown yourself by making me out to be a lib. That dog won't hunt.

46 posted on 09/17/2012 11:58:37 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (I walk forty-seven miles of barbed wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

The good old liberal word “hate”.

Black Christians, all Christians are correct to question voting for an anti-Christian cult leader, who first requested permission from the Cult’s ultimate leader before running for president.

If you know a lot about Mitt Romney and his character, then can you tell us if at this moment (today, right now), is Mitt pro-life, or pro-abortion?

Does Mitt support the GOP party platform on abortion?


47 posted on 09/17/2012 12:14:40 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

What will Mormonism require Mitt Romney to do as President that you find objectionable?


48 posted on 09/17/2012 12:19:40 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

There is nothing bigoted about Christians being against the anti-Christian cult of Mormonism.

You can quit attacking Christianity.

If you want to promote Mormonism just do it openly, don’t try this back door approach of going after Christians and Christianity.


49 posted on 09/17/2012 12:24:36 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

For this group, any reference to “Mormon” is simply a diversion.

They’re trying to decide whether to “support the black guy” or follow Christ’s clear teachings.


50 posted on 09/17/2012 12:26:44 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working fors)
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