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Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras
CNET ^ | |October 30, 2012 | Declan McCullagh

Posted on 11/01/2012 5:53:48 AM PDT by Ratman83

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To: Ratman83
Callahan based his reasoning on a 1984 Supreme Court case called Oliver v. United States, in which a majority of the justices said that "open fields" could be searched without warrants because they're not covered by the Fourth Amendment. What lawyers call "curtilage," on the other hand, meaning the land immediately surrounding a residence, still has greater privacy protections.

That's the key to this ruling.

41 posted on 11/01/2012 6:59:28 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: TheZMan
Never been under surveillance have you?

Try it sometime then tell me about it.

42 posted on 11/01/2012 7:00:53 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: alancarp

The courts at all level are blowing off our rights; they are just like the rest of the government, out of control.


43 posted on 11/01/2012 7:01:20 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: TheZMan
Blah, what’s the difference between this and staking out, or flying over, a property in undercover vehicles - other than it being a hell of a lot cheaper.

Trespassing.

You don't own the air, but you do own the ground.

The issue of UAVs and aircraft altitude do become an issue though. Can someone hover your property at 10' without your permission? I would say not. We will need to enact laws concerning property rights to airspace at 500' AGL and below.

44 posted on 11/01/2012 7:05:03 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Ratman83

Agree!


45 posted on 11/01/2012 7:05:45 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: stuartcr
If found, is it legal to remove them?My recommendation:

"I'm really sorry, Mr. Law Enforcement Officer! I didn't know that you had installed your secret surveillance camera right on the spot where I was planning to have a bonfire!"

Regards,

46 posted on 11/01/2012 7:08:13 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: glorgau
Now if these guys had their 22 acre property fenced off _and_ posted they might have more of an argument.

From the article: "Mendoza and Magana asked Callahan to throw out the video evidence on Fourth Amendment grounds, noting that "No Trespassing" signs were posted throughout the heavily wooded, 22-acre property owned by Magana and that it also had a locked gate."

The article does say it was posted throughout the propery, but not necessarily at the property line. The article doesn't specifically say that the property was fenced, but it does mention a locked gate. Why have a gate that locks, and no fence?

47 posted on 11/01/2012 7:11:49 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: Ratman83
The war on drugs takes more of our privacy again.

Indeed. The enablers of the drug cartels strike another blow for totalitarianism.

48 posted on 11/01/2012 7:15:10 AM PDT by zeugma (Rid the world of those savages. - Dorothy Woods, widow of a Navy Seal, AMEN!)
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To: Ratman83

Romney has avoided talking about the erosion of our Constitutional rights.


49 posted on 11/01/2012 7:15:38 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Seems to me if I find cameras situated on my property, without my permission ...

There are detectors, normally used for 'bug sweeping' against microphones and audible-survelliance equipment, that detect and alert you to the presence of circuitry (particularly transistors and chips). These devices would certainly detect a camera.

50 posted on 11/01/2012 7:17:30 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Pravda Press has gone from 'biased' straight on through to 'utterly bizarre'.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

He does not want to be attacked by both sides.


51 posted on 11/01/2012 7:22:36 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: zeugma

The more government and law enforcement support the cartels get the more work theat government and law enforcement get.


52 posted on 11/01/2012 7:25:09 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: SampleMan
The issue of UAVs and aircraft altitude do become an issue though. Can someone hover your property at 10' without your permission? I would say not. We will need to enact laws concerning property rights to airspace at 500' AGL and below.

IIRC, the SCOTUS decision on aerial surveillance used specific but ill-defined terms such as "Public Navigable Airspace" and "Naked Eye Observation" in deeming it an exception to previous cases which define the expected privacy rights attaching to a dwelling or commercial building and the surrounding curtilage.

Perhaps there are other cases which take a stab at defining these terms in a meaningful way.

53 posted on 11/01/2012 7:29:54 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: TheZMan
Blah, what’s the difference between this and staking out, or flying over, a property in undercover vehicles - other than it being a hell of a lot cheaper.

Stakeouts and flyovers occur in public space. Going on someone's private property and installing surveillance equipment doesn't.

So you're a shameful, hysterical Drug War fascist who embraces a Tyrannical surveillance state, as long as it's inexpensive to do so? Got it.

I'll have to remain a naive patriot who supports honoring the Fourth Amendment, unalienable rights, and fundamental concepts of Freedom and non-invasive government.

54 posted on 11/01/2012 7:30:03 AM PDT by sargon
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To: TheZMan

because if the feds tresspass on your property for surveillance, the courts would not use any evidence resulting from the violation..

now, they can tresspass on your private property, install camera’s, then go away...


55 posted on 11/01/2012 7:35:28 AM PDT by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: Lazamataz

Yes, there are ... and if I believed that someone might be spying on me, I would avail myself of such devices.


56 posted on 11/01/2012 8:08:38 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Ratman83

This creates two legal nightmares that need to be addressed.

1) If you shoot an armed LEO who has intruded onto your property or even your home, while making a warrantless search, with nothing obvious to identify him as an LEO other than a hidden badge, you may still be charged with murder; though it would be entirely legal to kill a civilian armed intruder indistinguishable from this LEO.

(A good question remains is it still murder if you kill him after he shoots at you, first.)

Interestingly, criminals have already adopted this as a strategy, impersonating police officers so they will meet no resistance when conducting a home invasion robbery.

So the question becomes, if you have fenced property marked as “no trespassing”, and an armed LEO without a warrant sneaks on to your land to emplace surveillance devices, and you shoot him, will you be charged with murder?

2) Once police have emplaced surveillance devices *with* a warrant, it is a criminal offense to tamper with, disable, or otherwise interfere with their operation. But if this is done without a warrant, is it still a criminal offense to disable such a surveillance device, though it is not distinguishable as being a police device?


57 posted on 11/01/2012 8:10:17 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: Ratman83

“He does not want to be attacked by both sides.”

When or if he wins, he will also have a mandate for creating jobs, and not much else...


58 posted on 11/01/2012 8:12:35 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: Ratman83

It appears not all the Constitution Shredders are located in the Oval Office.


59 posted on 11/01/2012 8:14:28 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
It all will come down to the juries. If I was on one with either of the your questions it is simple not guilty. Government is too powerful as it is.
60 posted on 11/01/2012 8:26:57 AM PDT by Ratman83
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