Posted on 11/27/2012 8:10:26 AM PST by bestintxas
A growing number of Democrats say they are willing to let the country go off the fiscal cliff if a deal cannot be reached by Jan. 1 that raises taxes on the top two percent of earners while protecting costly entitlement programs.
Their theory in this game of chicken with Republicans is that it will be easier in January to lower taxes for 98 percent of the country while finding the best possible parts of the federal budget to cut — in line with long-held goals of the nation's liberal party. They also think they'll be in a better position to save most, if not all, of massive entitlements like Medicare as well as pet projects.
The fiscal cliff, originally created to force a legislatively-appointed supercommittee to make significant cuts to the federal budget, is roughly $500 billion mix of budget cuts and tax increases.
It includes the expiration of the Bush-era tax cuts and Obama-era payroll tax cut, massive cuts to the military and jobless benefits, and a decrease in Medicare reimbursement rates.
This will send tax on bond interest to 44.6 percent from 35 percent; on capital gains to 25 percent from 15 percent and on dividends to 44.6 percent from 15 percent, Forbes magazine pointed out Monday.
The average family will pay an extra $2,000 to $3,000 in income taxes if Congress fails to reach an agreement before the Bush tax cuts expire on Jan. 1, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
The economy would shrink by 0.5 percent, the CBO has found.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
I hear you. I'm looking forward to the party that pushed Romney as a candidate to burn and go away.
/johnny
We know people who have moved to Costa Rica and Uruguay.
I am not sure where you get your bad information but the taxes go up automatically without a vote. However some Republicans (like Graham and McCain) apparently want to vote for higher taxes in exchange for canceling some of the automatic ones. They also want to repeal the automatic spending cuts, there-by increasing spending. Its Republicans calling for spending more here.
If you bothered to read my comment that you replied to it said specifically for Republicans to NOT vote for any tax increases and to let the $500B spending cuts got into effect without a vote .
I see you were sure that Romney would win :
I think the election was decided last Wednesday night. Romney cut through the media filter and directly sold himself to the American people. I don’t think there are that many undecideds left; the only thing the undecideds of today will decide is to decide to not vote.
It will be closer than it should be, but I’m confident Romney will win.
9 posted on Friday, October 12, 2012 11:02:29 AM by henkster
'Cut through the media filter'? Didnt you just tell me that it was impossible to do that? To just give up?
I see 3 primary possible outcomes
1. Pubs cut a deal - no cliff (likely); probably an extension more than a real deal
2. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff then cave later (possible)
3. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff and still hang tight. No deal (extremenly unlikely).
Pubs are in lose / lose and have been outmaneuvered and outvoted. They do not have votes to extend bush tax cuts for all via bill that obama ill sign. There is zero possibility of pubs holding fast in #3. No way Jose. We can shout it all we want. Pubs are like scalded cats that can’t be herded. #2 is only possible option and see what unfolds. Who knows? Maybe a miracle happens
They have no problem owning it - it raises the heck out of taxes and causes some spending cuts that will cause some pain and they can rest assured that they can blame Republicans and get next to no push back.
“Where would they go?”
Texas.
Good news. The GOP needs to get to work writing the epitaph for the American Constitutional Republic. They’re in the Alamo, and it’s time to make that last stand knowing that they will lose this battle, and even the current war, but with an eye toward communicating with future generations the meaning of the Republican ideal of America. Further sullying of the brand name in the interest of “not getting blamed” for the inevitable decline that is sure to come is stupid.
I see 3 primary possible outcomes
1. Pubs cut a deal - no cliff (likely); probably an extension more than a real deal
2. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff then cave later (possible)
3. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff and still hang tight. No deal (extremenly unlikely).
Pubs are in lose / lose and have been outmaneuvered and outvoted. They do not have votes to extend bush tax cuts for all via bill that obama ill sign. There is zero possibility of pubs holding fast in #3. No way Jose. We can shout it all we want. Pubs are like scalded cats that can’t be herded. #2 is only possible option and see what unfolds. Who knows? Maybe a miracle happens
Racing to Beat the Clock on the Dividend Cliff (SOL plan on how to beat Dems at comment #3)
“actually Bush’s tax cuts are the reason 47% of Americans don’t pay taxes.
Going over the cliff will make the system more fair again.”
I’m so glad there are smart conservatives. Don’t tell anyone.. but I think that is the plan. Get the number not paying income tax down to 40% again. The child tax credit will go from 1,000 to 500. That (plus higher rates) makes people earning 40-50,000 payors instead of payees. Maybe they will realize government does not create anything, they just take our money and give out the 80% not spent on overhead and highways to nowhere.
Curiously, there are only 12 million of us left in the country who actually make something. We’ll be fine. We’ll re-form as necessary to be in small enough groups to avoid the Obamakrap. The rest, however, will slowly settle into a standard of living somewhere around 1940-equivalent. I’ll be surprised if everyone will be able to keep a flush toilet. We’ve been sliding this way since 1975 and we’ll likely pass Greece on the way down. There was a story in yesterday’s local paper about the “Granny Pad”-—a one-room pre-fab apartment, meant to be semi- portable and used temporarily for senior citizens when they need to live close to family for extra care. The Eurotrashes already use similar cubby-houses-——if Obamuzzie has his way we’ll all be living in one, back in the city, after bulldozing the suburbs.
I think you are being disagreeable without actually disagreeing, or maybe not.
I know taxes automatically go up without a deal. Spending cuts are also going to happen without a deal. The problem is that there is no deal except on the democrats’ terms right now. They hold the cards in the Senate, the White House, and in public opinion as shaped by their propaganda organs. You know, the ones who helped so much in 0bama’s re-election. So no, I do not advocate a “surrender” because I do not think it’s the “right thing” to go along with their agenda. The only other alternative is for the House to pass responsible spending cuts without tax increases, even though we know it will not be signed into law. The GOP has the choice of having the automatic increases or cuts, or dancing to the democrats’ tune. It’s pretty simple. Take your pick. My guess is that they will cave and dance to the democrats’ tune.
And as for the previous comment back in October, well, a lot of people here agreed with it at the time. And, you ought to look at the context in which it was made; it referred to Romney “cutting through the media filter” in the context of a nationally televised debate which was viewed by 60 million people. It was Romney’s one and only real chance to connect with the voters because, as I’m sure you saw, the media filtered out everything else and slanted it to 0bama’s favor. That debate was an opportunity which will not be repeated for another four years. Until then, the media filter is firmly in place.
Medicaid and Social Security - for everyone under, say 55, Medicaid begins at 68; Social Security begins at 68 (early SS at 65 with reduced benefits).
Means test Social Security - if you are currently earning (AGI) over $150M; defer SS until you earn under, say, $50,000.
Disability for SS needs to be recertified every 5 years.
Welfare - put back in work requirements
Obamacare - short of dismantling it (my choice), eligible for free health care to 2x poverty income; not 4x.
That was easy.
I agree on that one.....
What you wanna bet he will be back? they never go away. Ann Coulter will be promoting him until the day she dies, she must be vieing to be is 2nd wife or something.
What do you mean by cave? If all those taxes go up and Dems float a bill to extend some of them then it would be suicide for them to vote against it. Rs would look exactly like what Dems made them out as to win the election, against middle class tax cuts. Of course they will cave.
If would be like the trap they walked into holding up extending the FICA tax cuts a year ago (December 2011), in the end they were so badly beaten on it that they extended them quietly a few months later after a short extension.
I been preaching since the election (”and yes I figured Romney would lose’) that Rs need to start fighting using their brains rather than slamming their own heads against the wall until they cave.
Republicans losing fight after fight is is real old, how about a change?
I thought Romney was straight.
Regardless of how the GOP handles the fiscal cliff, I think they are going the way of the Whigs.
Not something I wanted to live through with either party in charge, but I'll bet I manage, in spite of them.
/johnny
There's a long wait where a train don't come.
/johnny
” t Rs need to start fighting using their brains rather than slamming their own heads against the wall until they cave.”
Do you have any evindence of brains ?
LOL, I'm sure he is, but you think Ann Coulter realizes that? She seems to be SO in love with him and all she knows is he is a Morman, it's just likely she thinks they can have as many wives as they want.
/johnny
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