The problem with a battery powered plane is the low energy density of batteries. --- not to mention fire... haha.
Posted on 11/14/2013 8:45:44 AM PST by Armen Hareyan
Our engineering background is limited. Maybe our readers could tell us if Tesla's founder's idea of a supersonic airliner (that takes off vertically and lands vertically just for added difficulty) is technically possible.
Elon Musk has more ideas about transportation using electricity. In a recent interview, which seemed more like an outlined discussion than a true inquisition, the rock star of automotive manufacturing revealed two more ideas that involve using electricity to move people. The first is not that hard to envision. A pickup truck powered by electricity. We will address that in another story. The second, is a real head scratcher for those with any engineering background. It is a supersonic, vertical take of airplane – powered of course by electricity.
Before we begin, check our yesterday's story if you are not current on Tesla's stock drop, Q3 loss, and fires in 3 Model S cars. The link as the full interview as well as a summary of this week's big Tesla news.
Let’s look at his airplane idea proposed in an interview with the New York Time Deal Book this week. The interview turned towards air travel, which leads us to believe that the questions were submitted in advance. In any case, the interviewer spoke about Musk’s opinion of the 787 battery fires and from there segued into what planes Musk liked and why. It turns out Elon likes the 747 calling it fast and aerodynamically efficient. Saying “I do think there is an interesting opportunity to create a supersonic, electric, vertical take-off and landing jet. I think that would be really great.” Expanding on where this idea came from Musk said “Well the Concord was canceled. I was like, well that’s sad. Now there’s no supersonic transport. And is the future getting worse? It bothers me when the future is getting worse, so that is where the supersonic plane thing came from.”
Having studied mechanical engineering, and taken some limited courses in aerodynamics and thermodynamics at the undergraduate level, this sounds just kooky to me. In order to move an airframe through the air past the sound barrier it needs to create a huge push in the opposite direction via the engines. Using only electricity, rather than expanding gases, it is hard to envision accelerating turbine blades to the point that they are well past supersonic and compressing air in a way it would then be able to move a huge structure. Maybe electricity could somehow be used to convert liquid phase water to the superheated gas phase and thus push the plane past supersonic. Sort of an inverse steam generator. Interestingly, Musk said in the same interview he thinks rockets (as in space travel rockets) would never be electric, and thinks steam power used in the past is quaint. If we have readers who can tell us how an electric plane might work, please weigh in below. Let’s set aside the energy density issue related to the batteries for now.
Musk is currently the big thinker in the room, if you consider the world the room. Had he not already created a new currency, a new type of luxury car, and also a spaceship we would laugh at this idea. However, we are learning to take his ideas more seriously as time goes on. What do you think of a supersonic electric “jet” plane? Lark, or possible workable idea?
Still image courtesy of Youtube.com and AviationExplorer
“... how clean the environment would be of one day all planes flu by electric or solar power.”
Where is the electricity coming from?
The problem with a battery powered plane is the low energy density of batteries. --- not to mention fire... haha.
There are hydrogen peroxide and water rocket engines
but nothing electric that I know of yet. If they had
something like that, it would probably be applicable
to ocean vessels too.
Put a cattle prod to Elon Musk’s posterior, and you’ll see something moved at supersonic speed by electricity.
‘Where is the electricity coming from?”
REALLY long extension cords.
After his pneumatic tube shoots people from SF to LAX.
I believe the law of diminishing returns would apply. Unless there were some miracle innovation in the production or storage of electricity, an electrically powered aircraft would likely be limited to something sized between an ultralite and a Cessna 172. It would be a few generations before something big enough to haul a comparable number of people to airliners. Batteries get heavy, as are electric motors. Maybe the integration of batteries into the airframe, like fuel cells in the wings might be the way, but weight would still also be a major factor.
Is he driving a Tesla? Is he flying on his rocket? Is he using Google incognito?
It’s called gradiosity, imo. There is a lot of it going around in liberal and moderate circles.
Why not fight global hunger? Why not fight global disease?
No, he has other missions.
Some would say he is just part of a new wave of inventors, envelope-edge pushers, risk takers, .. considering his ventures, I would tend to agree that using any of them carries risk.
as for your wish for a cleaner environment, keep dreaming.
Man is a transient on this planet, not its master. not even of its climate.
(;^D)
Something of reasonable weight that produces the power of a small nuclear reactor.
Rainbows and good feelings, of course!
Obviously from power plants. However, if power is produced at central locations, instead of diffused throughout the country, it would a lot easier to contain the pollution that is a by-product.
Absolutely. But economically compared to hydrocarbon based fuel is a different question.
Even more, supersonic planes.
That is a far more complicated proposal to the first and far less likely to economical compared to hydrocarbon based fuel. I think we will see LNG planes somewhat commonly used before we see electric (battery) powered planes in non-subsidized commercial operation.
how much fuel we would save and how clean the environment would be of one day all planes flu by electric
Is that electricity that was first produced by another fuel in a thermal engine driving a steam turbine stored in batteries and converted back to electric power with all the inefficiencies of each stage? Without a significant change in technology, that won't be a fuel savings, just a relocation of the fuel spent, and more of it used.
or solar power
Save fuel, yes. Inefficient and therefore more expensive, also yes.
I wonder what would happen if an electric plane were to be struck by lightning.
And the unicorns, who give us the skittles.
With current technology, NO.
Plus it is an immensely bad idea.
Project Pluto was a better more feasible idea than this.
Technology that will evolve from rail guns and magnetic levitation trains would be my guess.
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