Posted on 10/06/2001 2:42:47 PM PDT by MississippiMan
Quick question: I'm working on a novel and need to know what you think would be the single most definitive verse or brief passage that supports a pre-tribulation Rapture? I know there's a verse that does such but can't seem to find it at the moment.
Thanks...
MM
So... which of the millenial positions can account for the removal of the Holy Spirit at the start of the Tribulation? Only one which has the church off the earth when the man of sin comes into power (or at least, significent enough power to be recognized as antichrist.) So, thats why I am unequivically pre-trib.
Rev 3: 10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Here is another, but it can also mean a great departure from sound doctrine, and that describes today, for sure!
2Thes:2:3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
The man of sin is the Anti-Christ, so this falling away, RAPTURO, must come first. When taken in context with other verses, it helps explain the doctrine of the rapture, those alive before the man of sin is revealed, being taken up.
Here is another 'hint':,p. 51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This twinkling of an eye, means an instantaneous change, not a person by person change, but all believers. To sleep means to die, and not all will die, but some will be changed, in an instant.
after that tribulation
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven
context:
Rev 3:7-10
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep(5083) thee from(1537) the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
First of all, out of the seven churches, why does this apply to us? Why not this?:
Rev 3:14-19
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Second, look at the greek words translated "keep...from". Here they are (the same greek words) used in the same way in another place in the Bible:
John 17:14-18
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep(5083) them from(1537) the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
With all due respect, these words, to be correctly understood must be understood within the given context. The context in this case (and most OT references to "two or three witnesses")is church discipline, regarding a brother who is in sin.
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." Mat 18:15,16
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Mat. 18:20
Although Jesus wouldn't be present in His flesh to discipline a sinning brother, two or three Spirit filled brethren would adequately be representing Him, as though Jesus was standing right there in the flesh, because His Spirit rested, in His power (Mat.28:18-20; Acts 1:8), upon their flesh. Regarding the rapture question, I might suggest a book by the same title by Woolvard..."THE RAPTURE QUESTION".
baa
1 Thessalonians 4 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
How about this.
Matthew 24:45-47
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
This rapture theory started in the early 1800's by a woman who was ill, delusional and having hallucinationsand was picked up by the pastors of the day to make a name for themselves and there began the rapture theory. It has NEVER been taught in the history of christianity until then. Check out your Bible and stop believing idiots!! Why would we want to escape the tribulation when it is the opportunity to stand before the Antichrist and witness for the Lord??????
Jesus will come in the air, catch up the Church from the earth, and then return to heaven with the Church.
In 1 Thes. 4:13-18 we are given a clear description of the rapture, "the dead in Christ will rise, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord."
The timing of the rapture is not known. From the word of God and from sound reasoning, something Jesus used quite frequently, I believe in the "Blessed Hope"... the pretribulation rapture.
Scriptural Evidence for the Pretribulation Rapture
When we search the scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour. Mat. 25:13 say Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Rev. 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1260 days. The 1260 days start when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4).
This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year tribulation (Dan 9:27). It should be noted that some people only see a 3 1/2 year tribulation. They are in a way correct, because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half.
Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a 7 year time period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1260 days (Mat 24:16).
There is no way you can apply "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here; the rapture of the Church comes before the tribulation and the return of Jesus to the earth takes place roughly seven years later.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
In Luke 12:36 the Word states that when Christ returns He will be returning from a wedding. In Rev. 19:7-8 we read about the marriage itself. Before the marriage takes place, there is the marriage supper. According to Jewish custom the marriage contract is drawn up first, often including a dowry. This parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us.
When the time comes for the wedding to take place, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced, she comes out to meet him, and then the groom takes the bride to his father's house. This is an exact correlation of the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the groom, comes down from heaven, calls up the Church, and after meeting in the air, both He and the bride return to the His Father's house - heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place up in heaven, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation are playing themselves out. After the marriage supper takes place, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean." (Rev 19:14)
MississippiMan:
It might help you if you read Matt thru John as Jesus dealing/talking with the Jewish folks.
Then read from Acts thru Jude as Jesus dealing/talking to the church
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