CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection

Philadelphia News ^ | Oct. 03, 2002 | Michael Smerconish

[The Great Satan]

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

During the Gulf War, an F-117A (not "Spirit of Oklahoma," which is a B-2, I believe) dropped such a 2,000 lb bomb on the Al Firdos bunker, incinerating over two hundred men, women and children. Iraq scored a huge propaganda victory, putting the charred corpses on display for a photo-op press conference. It lead to Powell introducing restrictions on the bombing campaign to minimize civilian casualties. However, after the war, I remember reading a report that the Pentagon knew that the bunker held women and children, but that it also knew they were the families of the Iraqi high command. Supposedly, this bombing was considered quite effective in weakening the resolve of the Iraqi regime. I suspect it also provided motivation for a lot of the revenge attacks we have seen since, such as the attempted assassination of Bush 41, the OKC bombing, and the destruction of the WTC. Saddam was still going on about the bunker bombing in his last "commentary" on the September 11 situation. It seems to be a very sore point with the Iraqi leadership.

[okie01]

Interesting hypothesis about the Al-Firdos bunker.

And, yes, it would've been an F-117A. The B-2 Spirits, with their "Spirit of _____" names, weren't in service at that time.

Note, FWIW, that McVeigh isn't claiming the "Spirit of Oklahoma" dropped any bombs on Iraq. Only that it is "one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq..."

[Fred Mertz]

No, this thread won't get yanked because it comes from a legitimate news source. I was intimating that I didn't think this thread would get many hits because many of the OKC bombing crowd are banned or walked away from FR.

I'm happy to see there is still interest in this today.

[twigs]

I heard the second half of the Smerconish broadcast yesterday. Davis was extremely credible. I had not really believed there was any connection until I heard her. Several things struck me: 1) the man she identified as John Doe 2 has sued her and it was thrown out of court. He had no defense at all; 2) she worked at a local NBC affiliate when OKC building was bombed and had the full cooperation of the station behind her, as well as feedback from the FBI (at first); 3) the station would not let her go on the air with her story unless she did her homework; station attorneys and editors worked with her every step of the way--she was no loner out there running this stuff down; 4) she found these people from a tip that was called into the station by someone who worked with the Iraqis that she later identified; 5) these men were absent from work the day McVeigh & co. rented the truck (April 17) and when they heard the radio broadcast that the bldg had blown up on the 19th, they celebrated.

If you ever have a chance to hear this woman speak, do so. Absolutely amazing.

[logician2u]

Didn't that A$$hole Clinton let 30,000 or so Iraq soldiers and families settle into our country shortly after we kicked the living $hit out of them.

Do you think a few of the new immigrants might have had some hard feelings, being we liquified tens of thousands of their buddies? I know it's a stretch, waddya think?

Whether or no former Iraqi soldiers were in some way involved with McVeigh and Nichols, there's this little question of loyalty.

Supposedly (if you can believe our State Department) the Iraqi people are fed up with Saddam Hussein's tyranny and would overthrow him if only we started the ball rolling, which may happen any time.

So given the choice, would an Iraqi who barely escaped death as cannon fodder during the Gulf War be more likely to work for some clandestine intelligence group of the Iraqi government, or . . something more aligned with eventual overthrow of Hussein, such as Hamas or Al Qaeda?

It's too simplistic to paint all Iraqis with that broad brush that makes them appear as loyal leutenants to Saddam Hussein. The fact that they were admitted to this country more or less negates that premise, unless one were to wear tin foil all around and think it was a set-up promoted by Bill Clinton.

Likewise, no one here is going to mistake a couple of Democrat Congressmen in Baghdad for agents of the Bush Administration. Although it's possible that people in Iraq have been brainwashed to believe all Americans want to kill them and their wives and children, in which case Bonior and McDermott were lucky to get out alive.

[logician2u]

And in case this thread disappears, here's a link to another recent article on the same topic, this from Chicago Magazine. Incredible source?

[justshutupandtakeit]

9/11 OKC connection bttt.

[glorygirl]

We are still here, Fred, just can't be online 24 hours a day. OKCSubmariner has been banned, however. I would just to everyone on the ping list who feels the way most of do to write to JR and reqest that he be reinstated.

IMHO, Bush and ARI are well-prepared for any questions about an OKC Middle East connection. Ari blew off a question about it from World Net Daily in July. See story list. (in Blue Box above)

The REAL PROBLEM IS THAT NONE OF THE WHITE HOUSE REPORTERS ARE ASKING ANY QUESTIONS.

Note to Sean: Dan Burton is on CNN's "Talkback Live" today. I think Rumsfeld's comment signalled something. If the White House or the Pentagon won't talk, maybe Congress will. Particularly Burton.

Just wish some of these journalists would do their jobs (or at least let us know they're trying in this direction.)

[Marysecretary]

I believe you are correct, Swordmaker. I've wondered that myself over the past few years. I know they'll all pay someday. Just wish it was in THIS world and not the next. Oh well, patience...

[twigs]

One of the men who appeared on the Smerconish show with Davis addressed the issue of why this has not gotten wings. He said, quite logically IMO, that once a decision is made that an issue is a certain thing (IOW, once it was decided that McVeigh & Nichols worked alone) it gets hard to reverse your path b/c too many people and egos are committed to the initial decision. He spent some time on the show developing this idea and it made a lot of sense.

[Marysecretary]

Better pray for her protection, too. People have been killed for lesser things. She's got the goods on 'em!

[glorygirl]

Yes, and Bush et al. might figure something along the lines of "Why ruin a good thing until it's necessary?" I'm convinced this is connected to all the big questions about Iraq. Seems so simple to me...They obviously don't want to tell us, maybe don't want to scare us, maybe believe they are outsmarting Sadaam. It's understandable, just don't know that it's the right thing to do.

[Shermy]

Remember, right after 9/11 there were calls to make the FBI more "investigative" than "prosecutorial." That is, look for whole truths, rather than ones that will get "wins" in the Courts. I think a lot of this was at play in the FBI investigation.

And the trial of McVeigh was not meant to flesh out the conspiracy. His lawyer tried to get him off, not implicate him further.

I would like to know the status of the Subway sandwich shop videotape of McVeigh and others. The FBI seized it.

[twigs]

Another reason this man cited for not making the explicit connection to Saddam is that he said Davis did not have evidence linking the OKC bombing to him. He said that it was entirely possible that they did this on their own. Although he did say how the tattoos one of the men (I think John Doe #2) had on his arm, an anchor wrapped with a snake, probably signified he was part of a Marine unit of Saddam's Republican Guard.

The other man also said that it's possible the tattoed man had been tapped for this job while he was still in captivity, although Smerconish brushed past this. I thought it was one of the most interesting ideas in the entire broadcast. Smerconish talks very fast (ala Chris Matthews) and I think he probably did not hear what his guest actually said b/c he was talking over him. That needs some exploration.

[twigs]

Yes, we certainly do need to pray for her and anyone who investigates our government these days. Fortunately, however, she is not the only one with the information. She did not work alone; she had the assistance of the local station for whom she worked. All of her evidence was reviewed by a number of people.

[itsahoot]

it makes perfect sense that he would try to blame home-grown
terrorists and try to imply a right-wing connection while burying
the truth.

I believe he tried to blame it on Talk Radio.

[baseballmom]

I listened intently to Michael's show yesterday also. It was all laid out. Michael asked her why SHE had such success in investigating this story and the FBI had nothing. She said that she did have some FBI field agents that helped her. She was highly complimentary of the agents who helped her. I got the impression that they were helping her in a very quiet manner. It was also intimated by Jayna and Larry Johnson, former Counter Intelligence officer at State, and Col. Patrick Lang of the DOD intel, that the supervisor agent in OKC was a putz. They gave a nickname for him (not flattering) but I can't remember what it was.

Michael Smerconish, a lawyer, Republican, and all around good guy, is also the loudest voice for the memory of Officer Daniel Faulkner, the Philadelphia police officer, who was murdered by Mumia in 1980. Never forget.

[Misterioso]

On re-reading McVeigh's letter, it seems clear that he is emotionally attached to Hussein/Iraq. Reading between the lines, he is betraying the probability that OKC was an Iraqi operation and that he is proud of having played a part. The fact that he never mentioned the disproportion of the damage to be expected from his truck bomb viz. the total destruction that actually occurred, leads me to think that he was in on the whole thing. Maybe he was a patsy, but we'll never know what he thought because he was snuffed out as soon as possible. In any case, his letter is tantamount to an admission that Hussein was behind it.

[browardchad]

McVeigh’s essay was dated March 1998

The fatwa signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin and Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt, et al, was published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998:

"...despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation."

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it..."

"O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least."

You could say that McVeigh took the advice on preferring "the hereafter," rather than talk. Or did he fear that others (his family) would be the victims of a "grevous penalty?"

Didn't McVeigh flunk out of special ops training? I heard someone on Fox say that Scott Ritter was turned down by the CIA. It seems that Saddam has a knack for recruiting frustrated and bitter wannabe's with authority issues.

[glorygirl]

"And the trial of McVeigh was not meant to flesh out the conspiracy. His lawyer tried to get him off, not implicate him further."

Yes, but what about the effort to stop his execution? At the time, the whole "fraud upon the court" thing didn't make much sense to me. Now it does.It seems almost crystal clear, in fact. Except that we still don't know the truth

Kind of weird, isn't it, that nobody seems to have made much of the fact that Sept. 11 was the anniversary date of Ramzi Youssef's conviction, doesn't it? (A bit more than the fact that it was also the three-month anniversary of McVeigh's execution)

I know there are a lot of people who have a lot of unspoken thoughts (as I do) about this.

If Bush is truly "beholden" to special interests who want to keep this secret, I hope he has or soon develops the good sense and cojones to realize that he and the American people will be a whole lot better off when the truth is told.