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It's Our existence, Stupid
The Conservative Voice ^ | 5/21/2003 | Tov B. Brog

Posted on 05/21/2003 10:34:19 AM PDT by ConservativeVoice

Tov B. Brog © 2003

It's Our Existence, Stupid

By Tov B. Brog

May 21st 2003 –Let’s just cut to the chase.  Forget about avoiding provocation.  Stop agonizing over land-for-peace deals that’ll never work.  Quit thinking that the other side, whether they be Islamic fundamentalists going after the US, or Palestinians blowing up kids in Israel, is interested in any final deal that leaves us with breath in our bodies.  They aren’t.

We need to get it through our heads that it’s our existence that’s the problem here.

We have to start taking the Bin-Ladens and the Arafats at their word.  With Arafat it’s not the false message he plies us with in his broken, stuttering English.  It’s his words in Arabic, to his foaming-at-the-mouth followers, that broadcast his real intentions.  In those speeches, he repeatedly refers to homicide bombers as “martyrs”; declares his dedication to the “liberation” of Al-Quds, Jerusalem to the rest of us; and makes clear his determination to follow the 1974 PLO plan for the “liberation of Palestine.  That particular “roadmap” lays out a step-by-step framework for destroying Israel, including the establishment of an interim “Palestinian national authority” that will serve as a springboard for the final assault.

You want proof that he isn’t interested in peace?  Look at the deal Israel’s Prime Minister Barak was willing to give in 2001:  a Palestinian state with shared sovereignty over Jerusalem, control of the Temple Mount, 92% of the West Bank, 100% of the Gaza strip, and a piece of Israel’s territory to make up the difference.  Arafat didn’t even counter the offer.  He just walked out and started a bloody uprising.

It isn’t the land.  It isn’t Palestinian sovereignty.  It isn’t even Jerusalem.  It’s Israel’s existence that offends the Palestinians.  If Israel were to surrender unconditionally, then, following the massacre of as many Jews as possible, there’d be peace.  In the meantime, for the Arabs, every compromise the US might come up with is only a stepping-stone to Israel’s demise.

When all this happened, the Israeli left, having become a one-issue movement, all but collapsed.  I know.  I was there.  They were like wide-eyed guppies that had just had acid dumped into their aquarium.  So deluded were they that many still insisted on pursuing the discredited Oslo accord, explaining their lunacy by saying “at least we have a plan”.  That’s like having your wife shoot your dog, burn down the house, clear out the bank account and run off with your best friend while you insist she’ll come back because it’s the only alternative you can think of.  Have fun waiting.  How about the possibility that she’s not coming back, ever again, even in a thousand years?

The Palestinians aren’t following any Roadmap to peace unless they’re dragged along kicking and screaming, with a gun to their head.

So, cut to the global war on terror.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is symbolic of the more general one between the West and radical Islam.  It’s not support for Israel.  It’s not the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia.  It’s not even our economic and military superiority that resides at the core of their enmity towards us.  It’s our very existence that threatens them.  And the friction between us can’t be avoided.

In a global economy, we have to interact with each other.  We rely on them to meet our energy needs and they rely on us to provide the goods and services that keep their countries running.  But they can’t handle the collateral effects.  The freedom that we take for granted is an obscenity to fundamentalist Islam, and it’s a threat to their authority.  Over 70% of Iranians want closer ties to the US, according to recent polls.  They’re supreme leader, Ayatollah Khameni, has expressly forbidden such a move.  From the time of Mohammed, he and his ilk have always applied a simple formula to their interaction with others: submit or die.  There is no compromise.

So, again, it’s our existence, stupid.  Our tolerance, our desire for compromise and coexistence, is just another sign of our impending collapse, a colossal weakness to be exploited.

There are only two ways to end our war on terrorism.  We can destroy the terrorists, eliminate their sponsors and intimidate their sympathizers into inaction, or; we can submit to their authority and convert, or accept second-class citizenship, under an Islamic regime.

You only need to look at their public pronouncements and published writings to see the truth.  They make no effort to hide their true intentions.  When Mein Kampf was published in 1925, Hitler spelled out his plans in detail.  The world ignored him and paid an awful price.  Let’s hope our generation avoids the same mistake.

Open your eyes and open your ears.
   
This is a fight to the death.  The sooner we accept that, the better off we’ll be.  Just as the Israeli Labor Party nearly led their country to disaster, our own appeasers, including the Arabists in our State Department, will try to push us down the path of compromise.  That’s a deal with the Devil that we dare not make.

For the sake of our country, our civilization and future generations, we can’t allow that to happen.

It’s us, or them.



TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; terror
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To: ConservativeVoice
Good God!

What's this?

A CONSERVATIVE USING RIDICULE EFFECTIVELY?

It isn't possible, it just isn't possible...

HE GETS IT!

The moronic Left either does not acknowledge the existence of Evil, or is itself Evil!

Somewhere, today, a Radical Muslim Terrorist is plotting to kill you, your friends, and your family.

Ask yourself this -

Do you want Rummy, or Powell, to take care of this?

NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH EVIL - KILL IT!

21 posted on 05/21/2003 2:08:12 PM PDT by Enduring Freedom (To smash the ugly face of Socialism is our mission)
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To: ConservativeVoice
Great article. This is what I've been saying all along now. It's not popular, and it's harsh. But then again, reality is harsh.

I advocate total war against the whole Islamic world - with a no-holds-barred, all-out scorched-earth policy. If they want a war, I believe we should show them War. Nuclear fire, plague, and the wholesale annihilation of the mullah class is what they should reap, broadcast live in living color for all the world to see.

It may sound like the ravings of a madman now. But what about when there is a poisonous mushroom rising over the dead heart of a US city? If on that day the American people and our government do not see the grim reality of the situation, then we deserve everything we get.

Let the march of conquest begin!

(Inflammatory polemic spewed by a trained stunt-writer on a closed course. Do not try this at home. May cause choking if swallowed. Void if prohibited. May differ in Alaska and Hawaii...)

22 posted on 05/21/2003 2:51:21 PM PDT by FierceDraka ("I am not a number - I am a FREE MAN!")
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To: ConservativeVoice
bflr
23 posted on 05/21/2003 4:28:59 PM PDT by cgk (It is liberal dogma that human life is an accident - Linda Bowles (r.i.p.))
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To: FierceDraka
It may sound like the ravings of a madman now.

It does to me. It sounds every bit as extreme as the people we're fighting.

24 posted on 05/21/2003 4:44:30 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Slings and Arrows
What do you mean, "we", Kemo Sabe?
 
He means the United States, Israel, and the whole damn West.
 
Anyone who would phrase a post in that way should be ignored. I think that you should not waste your time responding to that ahole.

25 posted on 05/21/2003 5:28:37 PM PDT by Radix
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To: Aric2000
I hate to say this. I really do. But there is a three-step plan that would bring peace right now if Israel were to implement it. I call it the Hama Method: carpet bomb, bulldoze, and pave. That's about what it's going to take, I think.
26 posted on 05/21/2003 6:48:05 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
I can handle that plan.
27 posted on 05/21/2003 7:03:44 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Radix
You're probably right, but scumbags like that get on my nerves.

I wasn't responding for his benefit; he's obviously beyond help. I was responding for the benefit of anyone who might be on the fence.

Israel, enough is enough!

28 posted on 05/21/2003 8:21:21 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Let's rollowitz!)
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To: Aric2000
Reminds me of that Chinese curse.
May you live in interesting times.

Actually, that's only half of the curse...

It's actually, "May you live in interesting times, and be noticed by important people."

The logic behind this stems from the ancient Chinese culture (pre-Communist crazies), where a happy life was one that was relatively uneventful, and you were never noticed by the royalty or their minions...

However, I believe that curse is still valid- the terrorists have finally gained the full focus and concentration of an entire nation.... A nation which was (to quote Admiral Yamamoto) a sleeping giant.

No longer. Active terrorists are now recognized by the free world, for what they are... vermin, to be eradicated.

I hope they're prepared for being noticed....

29 posted on 05/21/2003 8:55:51 PM PDT by Capitalist Eric
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To: ConservativeVoice
Our greatest enemies are domestic, not foreign.
30 posted on 05/21/2003 9:05:25 PM PDT by Consort
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To: robertpaulsen; Alouette
Those in favor of destroying Israel? 1,000,000,000 Muslims.

Those in favor of destroying US? 1,000,000,000 Muslims.

Get the picture, Kemo Sabe?

31 posted on 05/22/2003 12:13:51 AM PDT by onyx
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To: Slings and Arrows; Radix
I am saying that I want no part of your blind hatred and genocide. You disgust me. Your desire to wipe out a class of people puts you in the same league as Hitler. But you think you're better? So did he.

Just from this single thread:

"Islam is a religion of DEATH."
--Capitalist Eric

"It’s us, or them. Lock and load!"
--appalachian_dweller

"We can fight them now, when we are strong and they are weak"
--Slings and Arrows

"Israel needs to go in and DESTROY the PLO and ARRAFAT ... if there is an attack, ... POUND it in to the heads of the Palestinians"
--Aric2000

"it's war they are going to get ... real war ... not just a tank shell or a targeted terrorist leader ... real war ... the real thing ..."
--Bobby777

"Terrorists will not be dealt with, they will be destroyed, not brought to justice, not imprisoned, not converted, KILLED, destroyed, utterly, totally and completely."
--Aric2000

"ISLAM IS THE ENEMY ... We must defeat every aspect of Islam on this planet. There IS no compromise."
--ClearBlueSky

"I advocate total war against the whole Islamic world - with a no-holds-barred, all-out scorched-earth policy. If they want a war, I believe we should show them War. Nuclear fire, plague, and the wholesale annihilation of the mullah class is what they should reap, broadcast live in living color for all the world to see."
--FierceDraka

" carpet bomb, bulldoze, and pave"
--A_perfect_lady

"I can handle that plan (carpet bomb, bulldoze, and pave)"
--Aric2000

32 posted on 05/22/2003 6:58:11 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Aric2000
They don't need to be convinced that they are wrong, they need to die, PERIOD.

Terrorists will not be dealt with, they will be destroyed, not brought to justice, not imprisoned, not converted, KILLED, destroyed, utterly, totally and completely.

If you are a terrorist, your life is forfiet.

I must agree completely with you. (From your words to G-ds ears) ((And I like grandpa Dave too))

33 posted on 05/22/2003 8:16:14 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom
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To: robertpaulsen
Fighting terrorists is genocide? Fighting people who want to enslave or exterminate us is genocide? Nobody mentioned exterminating whole peoples - except you. In the very same post where you compared me and most of the posters in this forum to Hitler. Very interesting case of projection there.

Thanks for invoking Godwin's Law. Now go away. You are not wanted here.

34 posted on 05/22/2003 9:06:35 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Let's rollowitz!)
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To: Slings and Arrows
"Thanks for invoking Godwin's Law."

You're welcome. Let's hope it works on this hate-spewing thread.

35 posted on 05/22/2003 9:20:48 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
I never advocated genocide in the article.

We are facing people that despise us with a passion we have a hard time fathoming. If you had seen teh faces of the Palestinians who ambushed a group of Israeli reservists who had lost their way and wandered onto the wrong side of the line, then you'd understand.

This is a fight we MUST win! That means hurting people. There is no other way. We absolutley do not have to "kill them all", but we do have to kill.

If you don't see that, there's nothing any of us can do about it. This is America, someone will stand up for your life and liberty anyway.
36 posted on 05/22/2003 9:21:31 AM PDT by ConservativeVoice
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To: robertpaulsen
The only hate I hear on this thread is coming from you. Why don't you go over to LibertyForum or Democratic Underground? They like people like you.
37 posted on 05/22/2003 9:26:33 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (Let's rollowitz!)
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To: robertpaulsen
I am saying that I want no part of your blind hatred and genocide. You disgust me. Your desire to wipe out a class of people puts you in the same league as Hitler.

Freepers on this thread "disgust" you but the mass murderers who carry out homicide bombings to achieve the annihilation of Israel and the extermination of all the Jews from "Palestine" are your heroes. Do I detect a little double standard here?

38 posted on 05/22/2003 9:31:11 AM PDT by Alouette (Why is it called "International Law" if only Israel and the United States are expected to keep it?)
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To: robertpaulsen
Why can't we all just get along right?

YAK, YAK, DON'T RUN, WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS!

39 posted on 05/22/2003 9:45:25 AM PDT by expatguy
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To: ConservativeVoice
"I never advocated genocide in the article."

The article is a thinly guised call for one. Only at the end does it mention the "terrorists". The article describes how the PLO, Islam, the Palestinians, the Arabs, Arafat, Hitler, the Israeli Labor Party, and the Arabs in the U.S. State Department all want the Israeli people to die. And it's "us or them".

Take that how you will, and I've documented how some of the posters on this thread take it, I want no part of genocide.

40 posted on 05/22/2003 9:47:21 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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