Posted on 08/06/2003 7:08:03 AM PDT by Miss Marple
In the end, it is you and your family that must make the decision where to go to church. If your congregation has gone apostate (and it certainly sounds like it has) it is your job to find someplace where you can be fed from the Word of God and the sacraments, where you can worship, serve, evangelize and be discipled. These churches exist. You must find them.
I am speaking to you in a strong manner because the spiritual health of your family is at stake. Being without a place of fellowship and worship is simply not an option.
Well I believe women are pastoring churches because they are willful and rebellious. Men can't lead women that refuse to follow. Now answer the question "who has a vested interest in claiming a dearth of pious men: pious men or rebellious women?" Who has been steadily gaining influence for a hundred years: pious men or rebellious women? What does our country most closely resemble, the vision of pious men, or rebellious women.
First, save your straw man obfuscation about heading churches. I didn't claim that, and your phrasing it that way is underhanded.
Next, you read 1 Corinthians 5: 3-5 and tell me that's not a claim of authority.
Wanna come to my church or stop in any Baptist church and meet one personally. What's your beef with "elders"?
I don't have a beef with Elders, and your Baptist church would be the first one I've ever heard of to have them. And don't act like I've never been to Baptist churches. That's a Florida flag on my homepage. I'll show you fifty Baptist churches without Elders for every one you show me with them.
Not to mention the Baptist penchant for congregationalism is unscriptural.
They've strayed from the Bible and by doing so they are creating their own religion on the fly. If I get to pick and choose what's right and wrong them I myself would be playing the role of God... and it's back to that original lie that Adam felt for.
If we can pick and choose what's right and wrong, then how would be be different from Shirley McClaine?
God wants us to obey Him and partial disobedience is still disobedience. On an item that's a gray area, then it's the Holy Spirit that will guide a person (e.g. drinking alcohol... you pick the hobby horse).
But on something that was black and white and both the old and new testaments... ? Man, I've got to scratch my head and wonder how far away from God we have fallen.
I saw some ministers/experts on McNeil/Lehrer tonight and I about vomitted all over my kitchen. They were trying to state that the church was finally 'maturing' along with society... blah blah. And that there were only a few references and since we don't follow the book of Leviticus part and parcel, it didn't apply.
If I ... a sinner saved only by God's grace wanted to vomit, then how much more would an almight holy and righteous God want to? I wouldn't stand near some of those men.... (afraid lighting might just come right down).
It was black and white multiple times in the new testament and those guys had better read about the Jesus that will judge the living and the dead. Eyes of fire, tongue like a sword, feet of bronze.... (that's from memory). But He's coming back and he ain't gonna be pleased with this blatant 'humanism' in His church.
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
It says NOTHING about the love of money. It does say be content with what you have (weathy or poor) and do NOT COVET what someone else has for He will not forsake you.
A far cry from your statement:
Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
You don't have to have doubts since the Bible clarifies itself; not that you verse needs clarification but mayge this will help you understand Him:
The appropriate verse is this:
(not Hebrews but 1Timothy 6:10)
1Tim.6:10
[10] For the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil: which while SOME coveted after, they have ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Reading 1 Timothy states that the LOVE of MONEY (over God) which SOME coveted after has caused them error in their faith and lead to sorrow. SOME is not equal to ALL.
Job and Abraham are two of the WEALTHIEST men in the Bible and yet they remained true to GOD above and NOT distracted by their wealth. Money in and of itself is NOT evil. It is HOW you use the wealth - serve God or serve yourself. To teach otherwise in NOT Biblically correct.
How do you expalin the eztreme wealth with Abraham and Job WITH God's approval? I think you'll find that when you read the Bible for what it says and strip away prejudices, much can be learned about God and how He sees things.
Is actually :
1Tim.6:10
[10] For the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil: which while SOME coveted after, they have ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Reading 1 Timothy states that the LOVE of MONEY (over God) which SOME coveted after has caused them error in their faith and lead to sorrow. SOME is not equal to ALL.
Job and Abraham are two of the WEALTHIEST men in the Bible and yet they remained true to GOD above and NOT distracted by their wealth. Money in and of itself is NOT evil. It is HOW you use the wealth - serve God or serve yourself. To teach otherwise in NOT Biblically correct.
Since Hebrews 13:5 states this:
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
That's an easy mistake to admit. Don't let pride blind you.
Here's your statement:
"Then how did Paul claim authority over the various churches he wrote to...not the least of which was the Corinthian church?"
Back it up and stop obfusgating.
You can stop the ridiculous personal attacks right now -It's also not amusing.
"Stop acting as though your mother was scared by a priest when she was carrying you.
That's low even from you.
"If you are a Southen Baptist, you would obviously be surprised at the respect that many Catholics hold for the courage and faithfulness of the Southern Baptist Convention and its magnificent leadership of the last decade or so."
I am not affiliated with any denomination so flattery will not work here.
"What we Catholics have a problem with is the preachiness in spreading YOPIOS that abounds here as though YOPIOS had any authority whatsoever compared to actual Scripture. If you don't think that gays have designs on the Baptist churches, you are quite naive."
It's not the "preachiness" that you dislike but WHAT is stated FROM the Bible. I use the Bible as ULTIMATE authority and I do NOT take verses out of context as I have demonstrated. You just don't like the message so you shoot down the messenger with the "preachiness" slur.
"Furthermore, IF some INDEPENDENT congregation, claiming to be Baptist, publicly denied the divinity of Christ, that Mary was a virgin at the birth of Christ, that God the Father so loved the world that He sent to us Jesus Christ, his only begotten son, that Jesus died on the cross in atonement for our sins, and that he resurrected on the third day according to Scripture, I am going out on a limb and betting that the good men who run the Southern Baptist Convention will find a way to turn such a congregation formally into separated brethren after due investigation and deliberation. No?????"
"publicly denied the divinity of Christ" is grounds for separating from the under ANY denomination since it is false.
Surely you are NOT suggesting that an independent or grouped denomination be found acceptable when they publically DENY the divinity of Christ?
Maybe I misunderstand your point. What you are saying contradicts itself. If Jesus IS NOT divine then how could someone accept the rest of what you say? Honestly, I'm confused and what you're saying and what your point it.
"Then how did Paul claim authority over the various churches he wrote to...not the least of which was the Corinthian church?"
Paul specificly says Christ is the head of the Church. Nevertheless, Paul's claim to authority is not restricted to any particular congregation, or do you dispute that? I gave the verse 1 Corinthians 5:3-5 to back it up.
If you want to be a heretic, that's your business, but asking for an answer that was already given is just childish.
Yet to posit it's moral equivalence with the heterosexual, monogamously married ideal, is not compatable with Western civilization's advance.
Hence, the agenda, as attack?
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