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Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"
Reuters/Fox News ^

Posted on 09/30/2003 7:15:09 AM PDT by Dog

German Cardinal Says Pope 'In a Very Bad Way' Tue September 30, 2003 08:23 AM ET BERLIN (Reuters) - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the German head of the Vatican body which oversees doctrinal matters, was quoted on Tuesday as saying Pope John Paul was in very poor health and the faithful should pray for him. "He is in a very bad way," Ratzinger told Germany's Bunte magazine in an interview. "We should pray for the pope."

Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told the magazine that the 83-year-old pope had taken on too much, but he was unable to stop him.

The increasingly frail pope was particularly weak earlier this month on a trip to Slovakia and needed help reading his sermons. Last week, he skipped his general audience because of what the Vatican said was an intestinal problem.

Ratzinger's private secretary, Georg Gaenswein, said it was amazing how the pope, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease, kept going.

"He can't walk and stand anymore but he is a hero for the faithful. The fact that he doesn't give up despite his illness makes him even more credible," Gaenswein told Bunte.

He said the pope would not give up traveling. "When he is no longer allowed to travel, then dear God will come for him," Gaenswein said.

The leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics, who marks his 25th anniversary next month, appointed 31 new cardinals on Sunday, possibly putting his last stamp on the group that will one day choose his successor.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: biggotry; catholic; catholicchurch; catholicism; catholiclist; dogma; johnpaul; nobel; nobelprize; pax; peace; pope; popejohnpaul; rc; rcc; romanempire; rome; snakehandling; vatican
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To: Dog
I remember reading ages ago that Rigali was a front-runner as successor to John Paul. Perhaps his just being named Cardinal is another sign that the Pope knows his job is nearly done.

Pope names Rigali a cardinal

51 posted on 09/30/2003 9:07:43 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: firebrand
Apostate Pope? I have wondered that myself...Pope John Paul II has really hung in there , I often wondered if it was because of who or whats next.
52 posted on 09/30/2003 9:08:21 AM PDT by Delbert
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To: Campion
What? He would have turned into a Protestant? Maybe you might pause to reflect that the Pope knows a good deal about Scripture. Have you ever actually read any Papal documents? They're thick with Scripture citations.

I have stated he has great intelligence. He just has had questionable handling of a few scriptural issues, of which would have ended my personal following of his leadership.

1. Stating that Christ is not the only way to salvation. (Ecumenicalism)
2. Homosexuality pervading his church, and not nipping these guys bud, so to speak.
3. Pandering to scientists, in contradiction to the Word of God. (Giving room for his congregation to latch onto Theistic Evolution, which necessitates death before Adam, making death a natural occurrence rather than a choice of man, which eliminates the need for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).
4. Allowing Mary's status to be similar to Christ's.
5. Not having clarity in regarding standing against evil. (Sadam, Muslim terror).

That's funny, because Scripture says (Hebrews 13:17) that we are to obey our leaders and submit to them, not ignore them, toss them aside, and declare them irrelevant "for men will ever let us down".

I am all for respecting authority, but to me he is like a foreign prime minister having no juridiction in my spiritual walk. I have consulted my Pastor on many spiritual issues, and fully respect his spiritual discernment, however, to avoid slipping back into the dark ages, I recognize that I can personally consult the Holy Spirit via the Word of God, and in prayer.

Descisions for the church that God has raised my pastor up to head, are fully in his authority. His leadership in the church is final as long as he is adhereing to the scriptures. If not his loving brothers will tactfully point out any infraction. Accountability at all levels is a key to a successful family, church and nation.

1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Not Mary, the Pope or my Pastor.

53 posted on 09/30/2003 9:12:01 AM PDT by bondserv
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To: kinghorse
What do you think?

First, let me find that roll of Reynolds Wrap...
54 posted on 09/30/2003 9:13:14 AM PDT by G L Tirebiter
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To: G L Tirebiter
If we get through the lead up to this year's Ramadan in one piece I'll gladly accept the grief. Muslims have been pointing to the 2003 Ramadan as being the sign that triggers the appearance of the mahdi for a long long time. And believe me, these medieval cretins take a long view of history.
55 posted on 09/30/2003 9:24:00 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Dog
God bless this Pope.

(from a Prod)
56 posted on 09/30/2003 9:24:58 AM PDT by wardaddy (The Lizard King it was.....)
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To: bondserv
I have consulted my Pastor on many spiritual issues, and fully respect his spiritual discernment

Your pastor is, no doubt, someone you selected, and you consider yourself free to walk away from him as soon as your own reading of Scripture convinces you that your "personal consultation" of the "Holy Spirit" is telling you to. That's what St. Paul calls "following itching ears," and is neither the obedience nor the submission commanded by Hebrews 13:17.

to avoid slipping back into the dark ages

You know, its funny, but you reveal yourself by that comment. The term "Dark Ages" was coined by the un-Christian so-called "Enlightenment" to describe an era when Christian faith, not the worship of Mammon, was the guiding light of every facet of society.

Well, 200+ years on into that "Enlightenment", we're living in the real Dark Ages, pal. Look around you. They're here, now. More than 100 million lives sacrificed to Communist atheism and Nazi paganism. 50 million lives sacrificed to hedonism on the altar of abortion in this country alone.

Doesn't seem very "enlightened" to me.

57 posted on 09/30/2003 9:28:05 AM PDT by Campion
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To: kinghorse
What do you think?

Consider yourself a Jew in 1941 Poland. ALL of your friends and family are being carted off to die. You're next. Is it the end of the world?

Consider yourself a peasant in dark-age Europe. You've never travelled more than 10 miles away from your village. Plague has just killed 95% of the people in your village, and as far as you know the rest of the world is dead. Is it the end of the world?

Times are hard now, but others have had (and many do now have) it harder than we do here in the USA in 2003. I believe the End will come, but I'm not joining the tin foil brigade just because Today is worse than Yesterday.

58 posted on 09/30/2003 9:28:48 AM PDT by Fudd
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To: Delbert; firebrand
I think he has hung in there because he understands what is to come and knows that God has a job for him to do. Perhaps he has realized that his job is done.

He said in one of the books he wrote that he believes that the apostate pope will be either the one that follows him or the one after that. Another reason why he has tried to stack the bishops with those who think like he does.
59 posted on 09/30/2003 9:29:56 AM PDT by ShakeNJake
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To: ShakeNJake
He said in one of the books he wrote that he believes that the apostate pope will be either the one that follows him or the one after that.

Citation?

60 posted on 09/30/2003 9:33:17 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Jeremiah Jr
The two witnesses are Jews and Christians

I lean more toward Elijah and Moses myself. But then we've discussed this before and will make no headway in convincing each other

61 posted on 09/30/2003 9:39:56 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: SengirV
Instead it appears that the pope doesn't care. When really it's more like he is out of touch with the people.

There is another possibility which is that it is beyond his control. A very frail elderly man, even with paper powers that are absolute, is not in the best position to reign in evil doers on the other side of the world. That would take tremendous energy and organization, things that are probably beyond his ability at this point.

While somewhat sensational the books of Malachi Martin describe the insider goings on in the Vatican. Like any other huge organization (think Federal Government) there are competeing interests and power bases. Look at how stymmied Bush has been in some areas. Look how intractible liberalism is in places like the State Department. Similar forces may be preventing JP from the big house cleaning he would no doubt like to instigate.

62 posted on 09/30/2003 9:41:23 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: VRWC_minion
Why does he hang on so long? One of his main messages has been the sacred nature of human life, all life. Even the old, the sick and the unborn. While secularists would no doubt be happy to take people in his condition and give them "physician assissted suicide" John Paul is giving a living demonstration of the importance that even one very sick old man has on the world. He is setting an example, and living his words. In so doing he is protecting all of us from the brave new world where people are devalued and degraded.
63 posted on 09/30/2003 9:46:55 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Dog
I don't doubt that it is likely that JPII is rapidly headed towards the end of his pontificate, but all the same I should dispel some ideas people have that Ratzinger is the ultimate source of "the truth" about papal health. Ratzinger and the Pope are very close intellectually and theologically, but have never been especially personally close. That's importnant, in that it means that Ratzinger isn't as keyed in to the state of the Pontiff's health as say, Navarro-Valls, or some of the papal chamberlains, who aren't saying much. We've seen the papal "death watch" a few times before in the last 10 years.
64 posted on 09/30/2003 9:48:18 AM PDT by Paladin2b
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To: Campion
Your pastor is, no doubt, someone you selected, and you consider yourself free to walk away from him as soon as your own reading of Scripture convinces you that your "personal consultation" of the "Holy Spirit" is telling you to.

Of course (by following the lead of the Holy Spirit that is). God places each of us in a particular body (church) to serve for a particular time. When that time is up God will move us elsewhere. What's so hard to understand about following God's will for your life?

That's what St. Paul calls "following itching ears," and is neither the obedience nor the submission commanded by Hebrews 13:17.

No. Paul calls leaving because you don't like the preaching "following itching ears". If you leave because the pastor (priest) is apostate then how are you following itching ears? The false teachers tell us things we want to hear. In that case staying would be "following itching ears" and leaving would be the correct thing to do.

It's a pity more Catholics didn't leave the parishes of the sodomite priests for true Catholic parishes. The true teachers/pastors/etc tell us what is true, even if that sometimes causes us pain. Tough love is a distinctly Christian principle

65 posted on 09/30/2003 9:48:20 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: bondserv
This really isn't the thread to nitpick theology on. Many of the vast misperceptions of Catholocism involve Scriptural interpretation, Mary, and the sacraments.

The main difference in scriptural interpretation is that the Catholic Church does not regard every story in the Bible as a fact of history. Some books, like Job, Jonah, the Creation story, and Revelation (and all its symbolism)are regarded more as allegorical teachings. The Church does not necessarily endorse Evolution, nor does it deny its possibility. Ironically, with all the historical whipping that's been handed down over Galileo, the Church has immense respect for science -- i.e. the way thinks work as evidently commanded by the Creator. Among these possibilities is that Man "evolved" in some manner until the emergence of "Adam", who was infused with the first soul -- the image of God. The Church does not endorse this as a certainty, it is only open to further scientific discovery on the matter.

As for the Blessed Virgin Mary, this is another brutal misconception of the Catholic faith. There is no more "worship" of Mary going on in Church, than there is of dead love ones whose pictures hang on the wall at home. Catholics honor and praise her for her free will acceptance of the seed of the Holy Spirit -- not a small undertaking for a 12 year old girl in Nazareth. Catholics refer to her as the "co-Redemptrix" not as an "equal", but as an assistant. God's plan was for Mary to be the Mother of His Son. She was necessary for Jesus' birth just as the cross was necessary for Jesus' death. The Redemption could not have taken place without her (in God's plan) just as the world could not be redeemed if Jesus died of a natural cause. It's a mystery, and it's hard for most people to accept, but that's how it is. If anything, we give her eternal gratitude. Her power is in her holiness, not in any kind of "Divinity". It's the same holiness that you and I can share with others if we live our lives right. That's the beauty of it.

On the matter of who is the mediator between God and men, it is only Christ? Yes. This is true. I also suppose the prayers your mother sent to God on your behalf when you were but an infant were completely disregarded and useless, since there is "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" That would pretty much eliminate anyone you ever asked to pray for you in your life. Mary intercedes on our behalf whether you want her to our not (see Wedding at Cana). If you've ever asked your mother to approach your father with a request on your behalf, you know what I'm talking about.

I'm not nitpicking or anything, though.

And remember: Protestants worship a Bible composed of books chosen by the Roman Catholic Church. Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table.
66 posted on 09/30/2003 9:52:59 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: John O
God places each of us in a particular body (church) to serve for a particular time. When that time is up God will move us elsewhere.

Scripture says nothing like that. It does say, however, that the Church is one body, not many.

Paul calls leaving because you don't like the preaching "following itching ears". If you leave because the pastor (priest) is apostate then how are you following itching ears?

If he's really apostate, then shake the dirt off your feet and leave, by all means. But that doesn't fit with what bondserv said, which was "don't trust a man". My point is that Scripture commands us to trust men, or at least submit to them in obedience if they are placed over us.

67 posted on 09/30/2003 9:54:59 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Paladin2b
The only difference is, this is the first time clergy on the inside are initiating the "death watch". Every other times its been some media scribe speculating based on appearances.
68 posted on 09/30/2003 10:00:24 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: kinghorse
I think your way off base. If "most every (of the approximately 1 billion) moslem probably knows whats planned" then we would know. Their is a Hells Angel saying: "Three Can Keep a Secret if Two are Dead."

There is no way that conspirators would let anyone in on their plan who didn't need to know. The 9/11 hijackers were organized in classic a "cell" matrix. It is possible they did not even all know each other, or the existence of each other even.

As for you stringing a bunch of random facts together, I don't think you "big one" conclustion is deductible from the stated facts. Gold has been tending up for 18 months, to take one factoid.

69 posted on 09/30/2003 10:01:09 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Rutles4Ever
That was a very good, concise reply to the common "complaints" many have against the Catholic Church. Rarely have I seen the common questions explained so well. Good job.
70 posted on 09/30/2003 10:02:35 AM PDT by FourtySeven
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To: Dog

71 posted on 09/30/2003 10:03:50 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: John O
Do the Jews and Christians have the ability to turn water to blood? Or call down plagues? It's hard for me to see this.
72 posted on 09/30/2003 10:05:33 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: FourtySeven
I get by with a little help from my Friends. ;-)
73 posted on 09/30/2003 10:06:59 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Rutles4Ever
Protestants worship a Bible...

They do?

74 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:09 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Jack Black
I think the "two witnesses" are Moses and Elijah, personifying the Law and the Prophets. Part of this is because Elijah "shut the heavens so no rain would fall" (1 Kgs 17) and Moses turned water to blood and brought plagues against Egypt.

75 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:38 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Rutles4Ever
Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table. I plead ignorance. What was subtracted?
76 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:44 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Dog
The pope reminds me of my 82-year-old mother-in-law who since retirement has spent 20 solid years watching soap operas and playing the slots. < /sarcasm>
77 posted on 09/30/2003 10:11:52 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Campion
Which ever interpretation you have I don't see that we're there yet.
78 posted on 09/30/2003 10:12:19 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table.

Technically true. He nailed them to the door instead.

79 posted on 09/30/2003 10:13:07 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Jack Black
Maccabees, Tobit, Peter...to name a few.

Maccabees offers the foundation for the dogma of Purgatory, which Luther did not subscribe to. Tobit, I'm not sure why it was removed -- the only unique occurrence is the appearance of the Archangel Raphael.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
80 posted on 09/30/2003 10:16:50 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: ppaul
Typo: Protestants worship WITH a Bible.

Was it Freudian? Hmmm...
81 posted on 09/30/2003 10:17:32 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: biblewonk
The church is the "pillar and foundation of truth."
-The Bible
82 posted on 09/30/2003 10:22:14 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Notwithstanding
To all of you who are not Catholic but have posted such kind words: God bless you and thank you for your charity toward my pastor, John Paul.

Seconded.

83 posted on 09/30/2003 10:23:07 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Campion
Your pastor is, no doubt, someone you selected, and you consider yourself free to walk away from him as soon as your own reading of Scripture convinces you that your "personal consultation" of the "Holy Spirit" is telling you to. That's what St. Paul calls "following itching ears," and is neither the obedience nor the submission commanded by Hebrews 13:17.

I was lead by God to the fellowship which I attend. Being submitted to Christ, works that way for me. The spiritual growth that comes from an individual seeking God's will, keeps one in natural communion with Christ continually.

Biblically literate individuals, is true enlightenment. Hense the God blessed prosperity (spiritually) of America. Notwithstanding the blatant hypocrites you mentioned. (Which we all are to one degree or another, hopefully seeking sanctification through Christ in that area).

America has been "Missions headquarters" since much of the reformation moved here in the late 1700's.

Praise God for the "enlightened" Christians who weathered the Taliban in Afghanistan prior to WOT. Praise God for ministries like Safe Harbor, Samaritan's Purse, Voice of the Martyrs, Brother Andrew's Open Doors ministry, to name a few powerful outreaches of God going on today.

The Catholic church has been consistantly admirable in their help given to the poor. It is unfortunate that more of their outreachers aren't grounded in scripture, and centralized on sharing the gospel. Clearly, many are and do.

We can pray that a new Pope will lead them in that direction.

84 posted on 09/30/2003 10:25:03 AM PDT by bondserv
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To: biblewonk
He is the most Marian pope they've had in a long time.

And what of it?

85 posted on 09/30/2003 10:25:35 AM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: Aquinasfan
Inwhich will enter wolves in sheeps clothing.
86 posted on 09/30/2003 10:26:05 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: presidio9
A little defensive?
87 posted on 09/30/2003 10:26:32 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Amen. Excellently stated.
88 posted on 09/30/2003 10:26:57 AM PDT by mr.sarcastic
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To: Dog
May God be with him and bless him.

PYW- a Protestant
89 posted on 09/30/2003 10:29:51 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: biblewonk
A little defensive?

Not in the slightest. I love the Blessed Mother. I'm just wondering what your point is. You wouldn't be attempting to prematurely dance on the grave of the most important spiritual figure of the 20th century would you?

90 posted on 09/30/2003 10:29:55 AM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: bondserv
1. Stating that Christ is not the only way to salvation. (Ecumenicalism)

Citation? The Church's position is clear. All are saved by Christ. Non-Christians can be saved by implicit faith in Christ.

2. Homosexuality pervading his church, and not nipping these guys bud, so to speak.

Maybe he could have done more. Who's to say? He has less control over bishops than you might believe. And he's running a Church with 1 billion members. He's not omniscient.

3. Pandering to scientists, in contradiction to the Word of God. (Giving room for his congregation to latch onto Theistic Evolution, which necessitates death before Adam, making death a natural occurrence rather than a choice of man, which eliminates the need for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).

He gave evolution more credence as a scientific theory than I would have liked. But his statement made clear that it's still a theory. And he repudiated the theory of materialistic evolution.

4. Allowing Mary's status to be similar to Christ's.

Citation? That's plain heresy and would be quite newsworthy. She is regarded as the greatest saint.

5. Not having clarity in regarding standing against evil. (Sadam, Muslim terror).

I tend to agree with you on that one, but I think the media has distorted his statements.

91 posted on 09/30/2003 10:32:10 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Great post, thank you. I have had many pleasant discussions on these things with Catholic friends of mine. (Great brothers and sisters in Christ by the way, as I would consider you and Campion).

They wish, as you have done, that the Pope would clarify these issues to circumvent much of the "wild goings on" related to these topics in the Catholic church.

92 posted on 09/30/2003 10:32:49 AM PDT by bondserv
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To: bondserv
1 Tim 2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Not Mary, the Pope or my Pastor.

Do you ask others to pray for you? Do you pray for others?

93 posted on 09/30/2003 10:33:31 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: presidio9
You wouldn't be attempting to prematurely dance on the grave of the most important spiritual figure of the 20th century would you?

I certainly don't see him in this light but I also don't feel the need to hope for his death. I hope the RC church keeps up the Marianism. It is the biggest differentiating factor between bible based Christianity and Catholicism.

94 posted on 09/30/2003 10:33:41 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: Coop
I was on his protective detail in Arizona 88 and in Colorado 93 during the world youth day visits. Very gracious individual. I remember him at the retreat near Colorado Springs walking around, as he stepped over a small stream , he hiked up his robes a bit and I noted he was wearing a pair of Nikes . I thought that was really funny at the time.

I was stationed in Aviano Italy when the Pope died and they replaced him with the one that died in just a month. The current Pope was "voted" in while I was still there. Every TV station in Italy was tuned to a smoke stack watching/waiting for the ballots to be burnt that signaled a new Pope had been selected.

Italy has churches like we have stop and rob stores....almost every corner. When the new Pope was selected the bells in those churches all over Italy rang for what seemed like days....awesome event......

Just some of my personal memories of our Pope as I experienced it.

Stay Safe !

95 posted on 09/30/2003 10:42:58 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: biblewonk
Please turn to John 6:66

Setup: Jesus teaches the disciples about the Holy Eucharist (that would be the same one celebrated by the Catholic Church). Many of the disciples reject the teaching of the Eucharist -- cannot accept eating His "body and blood", and go on their less-than-merry way.

John 6:66 "After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him."

Hmmm...6:66... could it be..... ....

Come on, biblewonk. What major historical figure drew back from the Eucharist and no longer went about with the Church...? (HINT: He was also good at nailing things to wood.)

96 posted on 09/30/2003 10:49:31 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Squantos
I distinctly remember watching the smokestack via TV for John Paul I and then John Paul II, within about a month of each other.

The Pope in Nikes, that is funny! Talk about a marketing coup!

97 posted on 09/30/2003 10:50:57 AM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Rutles4Ever; newgeezer
That's one of the most twisted interpretations I've ever heard. It still doesn't come close to Marianism though.

Tell me the one about Her immaculate conception and how she sits in heaven as the distributrix of all graces.

98 posted on 09/30/2003 10:52:01 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Maccabees offers the foundation for the dogma of Purgatory, which Luther did not subscribe to. Tobit, I'm not sure why it was removed --

Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament. Non-Catholic Christians call these books the Apocrypha after Luther. Catholics call these books the Deuterocanonical books.

All of these books were accepted as canonical until Luther threw all of them out because of the reference to Purgatory in 2 Maccabees 12:39-45. His pretext for removing the books was that these books were rejected by a group of Jewish rabbis in the year 100 A.D. at the "council" of Jamnia. Of course, Luther was rejecting the canon determined by Christ's Church in several Councils dating from around the year 400 A.D. This canon was accepted by all of the Church Fathers with the notable exception of Jerome.

Additionally, the Septuagint, from which the Apostles quoted, included the deuterocanonical books of the Bible.

A good explanation of the Old Testament Canon.

99 posted on 09/30/2003 10:52:07 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Coop
Yep ....ya know yer getting old when ya can say you've seen 3 or more Popes.

Stay Safe !

100 posted on 09/30/2003 10:53:05 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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