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Vatican accepts evolution as fact
Fatima Perspectives ^ | August 24th 2004 | Chris Ferrara

Posted on 08/28/2004 9:10:46 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena

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To: dsc
So what if God used a method that looks like evolution to create man? When you're God, you do things the way you want to.

That is the essence of what I learned in a Dogmatic Theology course over 40 years ago.

41 posted on 08/29/2004 8:41:31 AM PDT by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: HawkeyeLonewolf
Six literal days folks

Nonsense!

42 posted on 08/29/2004 8:42:35 AM PDT by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: Stubborn
Ever heard of an angular unconformity? This is a type of geologic feature, first discovered at the end of the 18th century, that is completely incompatible with "flood geology" and a young Earth. This kind of feature consists of rock layers which are tilted at an angle, are sheared off on top, and which have another set of rock layers laid horizontally on top of them. This implies the following: the rock layers were laid over some length of time, at the bottom of an ocean. Then geologic forces lifted the layers up and folded them (into hills or mountains). These then eroded (over some length of time). Then, later, what was left of these mountains (tilted rock layers) was immersed under water again (in a lake or sea), where new rock layers were laid down. Finally, sometime later, these rock layers were lifted upwards again, where further erosion revealed them for us to see them. Note the sequence of events, each taking a certain amount of time. A lot of time. One can imagine the Grand Canyon being cut in days by some enormous flood, and one can imagine rock layers being laid down in various locations as a result of the flood. But one cannot imagine how an angular unconformity was created in this way.

There are numerous other geological evidences for an old Earth. One more example: Coral reefs have annual growth rings, just like trees. Coral reefs commonly have hundreds of thousands of these.

43 posted on 08/29/2004 8:46:42 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: Stubborn
From newadvent's "Creation, Six Day's of"

St. Augustine attempted three different times to explain the Hexaemeron in a literal sense, but each time he ended with an allegorical exegesis.

In 389 ("De Gen. c. Manich." in P. L., XXXIV, 173) he arrived at the conclusion that the cosmogonic evening and morning denote the completion and the inception of each successive work.

In 393 ("De Gen. ad lit. lib. imperf." in P. L., XXXIV, 221) the great African Doctor starts again with a literal explanation of Gen., i, but is soon perplexed by the questions: Did God consume the whole day in creating the various works? -- How could there be days before there were heavenly luminaries? -- How could there be light before the existence of the sun and the stars? -- This leads him to adopt simultaneous creation, to identify the light of the first day with the angels, and to explain the evening and morning by the limitation and the beauty of the various created objects.

In 401 Augustine began the third time to explain the Hexaemeron ("De Gen. ad lit. libr. XII" in P. L., XXXIV, 245; cf. "Retract.", II, 24; Confess.", lib. XII sq., in P. L., XXXII, 825), but published his results only fifteen years later. He admits again a simultaneous formation of the world, so that the six days indicate an order of dignity -- angels, the firmament, the earth, etc. Morning and evening he refers now to the knowledge of the angels, assuming that they denote respectively the angelic vision of things in the Word of God, and the vision of the objects themselves.

44 posted on 08/29/2004 8:51:44 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: sinkspur
Aside from that, the big bang theory indicates the first thing that would have been created was light - from the explosion no? Then if the theorists are right - Genesis has it backwards because it says that heaven and earth came before light.

Big Bang is a stupid theory

45 posted on 08/29/2004 8:54:22 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: cpforlife.org; Land of the Irish; All

LUCY COME FORWARD
"I wish at this time, My children, to repeat again the need to write, to speak, to meet with the Holy Father in Rome, and plead with him to have Lucy come forward and tell the Third Secret word for word." - Our Lady, June 18, 1986

1972
"Satan, Lucifer in human form, entered into Rome in the year 1972. He cut off the rule, the role of the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI. Lucifer has controlled Rome and continues this control now.*

"And I tell you now, My children, unless you pray and make My counsel known to all of the ruling fathers of the Eternal City of Rome, My Son's Church, His House, will be forced into the catacombs. A great struggle lies ahead for mankind. The eventual outcome is for good of all, for this trial in My Son's Church will be a true proving ground for all the faithful. Many latter-day saints shall rise out of the tribulation." - Our Lady, September 7, 1978

*It should be understood that Our Lady is merely expressing the horrid consequence of Satan's presence in the Vatican: the Holy Father is not a free agent and cannot do as he wills. Thus, we take serious Heaven's frequent exhortation to earnest prayer for the papacy and for the now reigning Vicar of Christ, John Paul II. Nevertheless, Our Lord's promise to be with His Church until the end remains intact. For despite this current debacle, Christ has preserved for the faithful the validity of the sacraments


46 posted on 08/29/2004 8:56:20 AM PDT by missyme (<imgsrc=http://www.cat-domain.com/cats_long/yoni-rmans.jpg>)
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To: Stubborn

"Don't you agree?"

No, I don't. Until man was ensouled, he was not man. He was merely one more creature.

As you point out, it is the soul that separates us from the animals more than anything else. Right up to the very last generation before ensoulment, man's ancestors would have been animals.


47 posted on 08/29/2004 8:57:56 AM PDT by dsc
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To: megatherium
To me, it all boils down to this: If the earth is millions of centuries old, that means that man evolved.

If man evolved, it necessarily follows that somewhere in there, man did not have an immortal soul - which would mean that "our immortal souls evolved" - which is an obvious oxymoron.

48 posted on 08/29/2004 9:04:47 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: dsc

ensoulment? Thats a fresh one to me.


49 posted on 08/29/2004 9:05:35 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: Stubborn

Those are details. It is almost impossible to argue a "start from scratch" creation theory, at least where mankind is concerned.


50 posted on 08/29/2004 9:05:37 AM PDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if I can't wear the tiara?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: missyme
What is the source of your quotes.

There has been no Church-approved apparitions in the last 30 years.

51 posted on 08/29/2004 9:07:12 AM PDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if I can't wear the tiara?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: missyme
Vatican 1

Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs

That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45] .

For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood [46] .

Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the church which he once received [47] .

For this reason it has always been necessary for every church--that is to say the faithful throughout the world--to be in agreement with the Roman church because of its more effective leadership. In consequence of being joined, as members to head, with that see, from which the rights of sacred communion flow to all, they will grow together into the structure of a single body [48] .

Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy:let him be anathema.

52 posted on 08/29/2004 9:09:02 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: sinkspur

www.lastdaysministries.org


53 posted on 08/29/2004 9:11:03 AM PDT by missyme (<imgsrc=http://www.cat-domain.com/cats_long/yoni-rmans.jpg>)
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To: bornacatholic

How do you interpet the third secret of Fatima? and do you believe that demonic forces our in the Vatican?


54 posted on 08/29/2004 9:13:59 AM PDT by missyme (<imgsrc=http://www.cat-domain.com/cats_long/yoni-rmans.jpg>)
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To: missyme

No. Where did these quotations from Mary come from? Where did she appear? Are Protestants now attributing apparitions to the Blessed Virgin?


55 posted on 08/29/2004 9:15:00 AM PDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if I can't wear the tiara?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur

In entrusting to you, O Mother, the world, all individuals and peoples, we also entrust to you this very consecration of the world, placing it in your motherly Heart.

Immaculate Heart! Help us to conquer the menace of evil, which so easily takes root in the hearts of the people of today, and whose immeasurable effects already weigh down upon our modern world and seem to block the paths towards the future!

From famine and war, deliver us.

From nuclear war, from incalculable self-destruction, from every kind of war, deliver us.

From sins against the life of man from its very beginning, deliver us.

From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us.

From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us.

From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us.

From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us.

From the loss of awareness of good and evil, deliver us.

From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us, deliver us.

Accept, O Mother of Christ, this cry laden with the sufferings of all individual human beings, laden with the sufferings of whole societies.

Help us with the power of the Holy Spirit to conquer all sin: individual sin and the ‘sin of the world', sin in all its manifestations.

Let there be revealed, once more, in the history of the world the infinite saving power of the Redemption: the power of merciful Love! May it put a stop to evil! May it transform consciences! May your Immaculate Heart reveal for all the light of Hope!”.(4)

Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.

In the documentation presented here four other texts have been added to the manuscripts of Sister Lucia: 1) the Holy Father's letter of 19 April 2000 to Sister Lucia; 2) an account of the conversation of 27 April 2000 with Sister Lucia; 3) the statement which the Holy Father appointed Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State, to read on 13 May 2000; 4) the theological commentary by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


56 posted on 08/29/2004 9:22:56 AM PDT by missyme (<imgsrc=http://www.cat-domain.com/cats_long/yoni-rmans.jpg>)
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To: sinkspur

2nd PETER:2 10:12 speaks of this....


57 posted on 08/29/2004 9:25:39 AM PDT by missyme (<imgsrc=http://www.cat-domain.com/cats_long/yoni-rmans.jpg>)
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To: missyme
You seem unable to answer a question.

Where, and to whom, did Mary make this statement which you posted:

"I wish at this time, My children, to repeat again the need to write, to speak, to meet with the Holy Father in Rome, and plead with him to have Lucy come forward and tell the Third Secret word for word." - Our Lady, June 18, 1986

58 posted on 08/29/2004 9:26:24 AM PDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if I can't wear the tiara?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: missyme
The Magisterium has already explained it. The explanation can be found at the Holy See website.

If there are demonic forces inside the Vatican it is likely just a group of democrats on tour there.

The Catholic Church Dogmatically Teaches - That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time

I think any vision that contradicts this Dogmatic Truth is of Demonic origins.

59 posted on 08/29/2004 9:34:48 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Grey Ghost II
Six days.

What is a "day"?

According to modern man, a "day" is 24 hours which is the time it takes the Earth to rotate on it's axis (more or less).

According to Genesis, " God called the light 'day'. "

Genesis does not resort to any time frame accepted by modern man to define "day". It uses God's definitition that had absolutely nothing to do with the Earth's rotation around it's axis as "sky" was not created until the second day.

If you are going to takes "God's word" in interpreting the Bible, then you you need to take "God's word" that God defined "day" as "light" and not as modern man defines "day".

60 posted on 08/29/2004 9:38:04 AM PDT by Polybius
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