New film about Mountain Meadows revives controversy over LDS role

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 1/24/06 | John Anderson

[Utah Binger]

LOS ANGELES - As 2006 dawned, Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven - about a ''divinely ordered'' double murder in 1984 by two members of a breakaway Mormon sect - was fresh off the best-seller list. Warren Jeffs, the polygamist prophet of this splinter group, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was on FBI wanted lists. And the world's first-ever ''Mormon- sploitation Retrospective'' of vintage fear-mongering anti-Mormon movies had just finished at the fringy Pioneer Theater in New York's East Village.

In public relations terms, this is not the easiest time to have the words ''Latter,'' ''Day'' and ''Saints'' anywhere close together in your name. And the going may get rougher after the filmmaker Christopher Cain finishes his new movie about one of the darkest moments in Mormon history, the Mountain Meadows massacre of 1857, in which 137 pioneers from Arkansas were killed in Utah by a raiding party whose ties to the LDS Church are still in dispute.

An early look at parts of "September Dawn" - viewed in a West Los Angeles editing room with Cain and his longtime editor, Jack Hofstra - suggests that there will be fresh debate when it finally reaches the public.

[Utah Binger]

Just a big FYI

[Utah Binger]

In this morning's Tribune

[Little_shoe]

I had a mormon in my company. He evangelized more then any of us protestant evangelicals. He kept trying to force his religion down our throats and by putting up his propaganda everywhere...

[Revelation 911]

And the world's first-ever ''Mormon- sploitation Retrospective'' of vintage fear-mongering anti-Mormon movies had just finished at the fringy Pioneer Theater in New York's East Village.

In public relations terms, this is not the easiest time to have the words ''Latter,'' ''Day'' and ''Saints'' anywhere close together in your name. And the going may get rougher after the filmmaker Christopher Cain finishes his new movie about one of the darkest moments in Mormon history, the Mountain Meadows massacre of 1857, in which 137 pioneers from Arkansas were killed in Utah by a raiding party whose ties to the LDS Church are still in dispute.

more victimization and persecution, unclarified until the last sentence

this thread has the half life of a six pack at a frat house

[MineralMan]

Please, folks...no Mormon bashing.

[colorcountry]

That will be difficult since this massacre was carried out by Mormons.

What do you want us to say? They were all peace loving, Christians?

[ZULU]

"..the Mountain Meadows massacre of 1857, in which 137 pioneers from Arkansas were killed in Utah by a raiding party whose ties to the LDS Church are still in dispute."

You can't dispute history. It did happen. And the people who did it were connected to the Mormon Church which was at the time quite a militaristic organization. Brigham Young referred to himself as the "Mohammad of the West".

However, modern day Mormons are no more responsible for this than modern day Catholics for the inquisition or modern day Episcopalians for the Star Chamber.

But it happened.

[KC_Conspirator]

Yes, I remember seeing or reading something about this. This is a touchy subject in Utah, as much of the Mormon church tries to ignore this story, much like Japs ignore Pearl Harbor. I think that a band of militant Mormoms masscred these pioneers as they crossed southern Utah and dressed like Indians.

[colorcountry]

However, modern day Mormons are no more responsible for this than modern day Catholics for the inquisition or modern day Episcopalians for the Star Chamber.

You are correct, however, in this day when the Pope has apologized for atrocities committed by the early Catholic Church, it would be nice to see the LDS hierarchy come forward, accept the blame, and publicly apologize. I think their continued denial of involvement has only added to the flame.

[socal_parrot]

I think Hollywood is always looking for away to protray western religions in a bad light.

I don't think it would be Mormon bashing to discuss Moundain Meadows. Brigham Young and the Mormon Church didn't want the settlers there and they ended up dead. I think there is a pretty good chance that Mormons carried out the raid or pursuaded indians to do it. The only people really disputing this is the LDS Church and their PR firms.

[originalbuckeye]

I agree with you about the way Hollywood goes out of it's way to dredge up anything negative about any protestant religion. I suspect that there are lots of atrocities in the dark corners of all the religions. The problem with protestant religions is that we don't have special interest groups threatening lawsuits. The screenwriters rewrote 'The Sum of All Fears' so that the villians wouldn't be from the ROP. That's when I decided to find out the slant of any given movie before making a choice to pay money to see it.

[colorcountry]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,400009171,00.html

Saturday, May 18, 2002

New facts on guilt in Mountain Meadows Massacre

By Carrie A. Moore
Deseret News religion editor
New evidence uncovered by scholars researching the Mountain Meadows Massacre shows that regional leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in southern Utah had greater culpability in the event than previously acknowledged by most LDS authors.
In a strikingly candid presentation of the events surrounding the massacre, three LDS Church employees told participants at the annual meeting of the Mormon History Association on Friday that "a willingness to face the facts" is vital to "true reconciliation."......

....... In the "spirit of frankness and healing," Turley has teamed with Glen Leonard, director of the Museum of Church History and Art, and Ronald Walker, a professor of history at the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for LDS History at Brigham Young University, to produce a book — "Tragedy at Mountain Meadows" — he said will deal with previously unpublished materials relating to the events. All three addressed the gathering at the Doubletree Hotel in Tucson.
"Open, candid evaluation of that tragedy can produce catharsis, a cleansing spiritual renewal and healing," Turley said, adding the authors will "present the evidence as we find it — honestly, openly and candidly." Once the book is published next year by Oxford University Press, the group plans to "open new sources we have discovered for public use."


We are all still waiting for the book to be published. I wonder what happened?

[PzLdr]

The attack was carried out by Paiute Indians and Mormon militia. After the Arkansans surrendered, they were taken by the Mormons., who then killed every man, woman and child above eight years of age [there were survivors, recovered from Mormon families]. The controversy is not that the LDS was involved. Stephen D. Lee was convicted of the crime. The controversy is whether Brigham Young ordered the massacre. There are several excellent books on the subject, as well as monographs, written on ther subject.

[MineralMan]

"That will be difficult since this massacre was carried out by Mormons.

What do you want us to say? They were all peace loving, Christians?"

Yes, the massacre had Mormons involved in it. There are a lot of bad things that happen that have members of groups involved. There are some very interesting cases involving American Indians, where Christians were involved. That is not my point.

No current member of the LDS church was involved. Mormons get bashed here on FR quite frequently, and I was trying to caution people not to blame current Mormons for historical events they were not involved in.

Every group has some skeletons in its closet. Christians are not exempt from that statement, yet bashing Christians for actions taken by some Christians in the past is not proper.

[MineralMan]

"I don't think it would be Mormon bashing to discuss Moundain Meadows. Brigham Young and the Mormon Church didn't want the settlers there and they ended up dead. I think there is a pretty good chance that Mormons carried out the raid or pursuaded indians to do it. The only people really disputing this is the LDS Church and their PR firms.
"

It happened. It's true. It also happened that Mormons were burned out of their homes and killed in Missouri by folks who called themselves Christians. Lots of things happened in the past that the groups involved should have shame about.

Current Mormons did none of this.

[colorcountry]

It is Modern day Mormons who are still looking to put the blame on John D. Lee and him almost exclusively, even though the evidence shows him as 4TH in command. Evidence of victims being shot in the face at point blank range also exclude him from being the only participant. He was deemed responsible because of his title of Indian Farmer - he was the Church's contact for the local Indian tribes. It has been determined that the Indians were not responsible, and perhaps not even involved.

From the same article I previously mentioned:

The role of John D. Lee, a church leader who eventually was executed for his role in the murders, "grew in our minds as our research went forward," Walker said, noting Lee was "a man of action, but far too certain of himself."
"He deceived others by first deceiving himself. He had kaleidoscopic and extreme drives, the result perhaps of the horrid abuse he had experienced in childhood. By his own admission, sex for him was an almost uncontrollable torrent. Yet, notwithstanding these flaws and perhaps in part because of them, there were offsetting virtues, too," including "generosity, piety and even religious force."
Though he had chances to escape his execution, "he made no attempt to do so. Lee had enough humanity for all of us."

Lee was the only one tried for the crime, the only one convicted. By smearing Lee again...creating the same scapegoat that they had originally, it once again causes his family to bear the burden of what was the Church's action. I know, I am his descendant...we want his image restored...he was following orders as a military command.

He was not innocent and he paid with his life. His descendants have paid for his crime and that of every other member involved for over 150 years. It's time the Church came clean.

[ZULU]

I can't argue with you there.

But I don't think the Pope should have issued a blanket apology for the Crusades. As a matter of fact, I think we could a few regiments of Templars right about now.

[socal_parrot]

The Mormon War and the persecution of Mormons in Missouri is well documented and a sad chapter in American History. The killing if 17 Mormons at the Haun's Hill Massacre is especially disturbing. Mormons in Utah also went to great lengths to protect their polygamist lifestyle, including armed attacks against the United States Army and a plan to burn Salt Lake City to the ground rather than surrender it to US Forces. If Mormons would take up arms against the US to protect their way of life, it is not a great leap to argue that they perpetrated the Mountain Meadows Massacre against settlers whom were perceived a threat.

[MineralMan]

Yes. Both those things happened. The LDS church of today is a far different body that it was back in the 1800s. There were lots of things going on in the 19th century that lots of people should be ashamed of. I can think of a whole bunch of them, and I'll bet you can, too.

This is the 21st century.

[colorcountry]

The thread went as I expected. Not one defender of the OTC.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre is simply indefensible - can't touch it with a ten-foot pole.