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THE ANTI-CATHOLIC NATURE OF FREEMASONRY
Catholic Church Teaching on Freemasonry ^ | March 17, 1927 | MARTIN J. SCOTT, S.J.

Posted on 09/10/2006 9:16:53 PM PDT by boromeo

COMMENT: New-Church Catholics who have fully embraced the ecumenical, Romasonic Catholic creed will be shocked to learn that the "naturalism" or "universalism" preached by Masonry was condemned for centuries by the real Roman Catholic Church. Since the Grand Lodge started claiming Popes as enrolled members, the condemnations have all but ceased. For Freepers wondering what the big deal is about Fez bedecked men driving in go-carts, you're driving in the wrong direction...

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FORWARD TO THINGS CATHOLICS ARE ASKED ABOUT, by MARTIN J. SCOTT : Outside the Catholic Church there is at present very great interest in things Catholic. Sincere people of other denominations are dissatisfied with the vagueness and uncertainty of their creeds and the worldly character of their churches. Sensational preaching may make a preacher popular, but does not satisfy the yearning of the religious soul for the things of the spirit. Hence, many earnest people, thoroughly dissatisfied with religion as they find it, but who nevertheless realize the needs of the spiritual life, are turning to the Catholic Church with its certainty of creed and its sacramental solace and support.

THINGS CATHOLICS ARE ASKED ABOUT: CHAPTER XXXVII FREEMASONRY

It is well known that the Catholic Church is opposed to Freemasonry.

Indeed it is excommunication for a Catholic to be a Freemason. Freemasons know this. Parkinson, an illustrious Mason says: "The two systems of Romanism and Freemasonry are not only incompatible, but they are radically opposed to each other" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1884, II, I7). This is so well understood that we are not surprised to know that Masons as a body do not want Catholics in their ranks. "We won't make a man a Freemason until we know that he isn't a Catholic" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1890, II, 347).

Freemasonry is a very widespread organization, and it may well be that in certain localities and among certain groups these sentiments toward Catholicism and Catholics do not prevail. However, all that I shall say with regard to Freemasonry characterizes the order as it shows itself in its constitutions and as it has manifested itself in its activities.

I have met Freemasons who have assured me that there was nothing in their organization which was in any way opposed to the Catholic Church. These were sincere men, and doubtless spoke from personal knowledge. Some of these men were high up in the order and respected it greatly. These men were converts to the Catholic faith. They left Freemasonry because they understood that they could not be Catholics and Freemasons.

In considering Freemasonry, we must keep in mind the distinction between the order and the individual. One may be opposed to the Republican or Democratic party and yet esteem the individual members of the party. In considering Freemasonry we have in mind the order as an order, its essential and practical attitude toward the Catholic Church. In the first place it is necessary to say that very few of the rank and file of Freemasonry are acquainted with the real purpose of the order. This may sound strange, considering that Freemasons are for the most part men of superior intelligence. It seems so strange that I feel I must give authority for the statement. "Brethren high in rank and office, are often unacquainted with the elementary principles of the science of Freemasonry" (Oliver, Theocratic Philosophy, 355). "Masons may be fifty years masters of the Chair and yet not learn the secret of the Brotherhood" (Oliver, Hist. Landmarks, I, 11, 21). There is no higher authority on Freemasonry than Oliver, himself a Freemason.

The fact that the real purpose and aim of the order is so little known to the generality of Masons explains why it is that Masons themselves, in all sincerity, will declare that the purpose of the order is mainly fraternal and philanthropic. However, we shall see for ourselves, by the clearest evidence, what the real purpose of the order is. The Catholic Church is the greatest encourager on earth of fraternalism and philanthropy. She is also the best informed organization in the world. Unless, in fact, Freemasonry was opposed to what she fundamentally stands for, she never would be opposed to it as she is. In point of fact Catholic Freemasonry existed for centuries as a benevolent and fraternal organization before the birth of the present non-Catholic Masonry. Catholic Freemasonry took its origin from the guilds of the middle ages. Stonemasons had their guilds as well as other crafts. Each local group had its own guild. Certain skilled masons used to travel from place to place wherever there was a Gothic cathedral in course of erection. These masons in coming to a new place had to be acknowledged by the local guild before they could practice their craft. For this purpose they carried with them certificates that they were qualified masons and free to work in any place. Hence they were called freemasons, not being restricted to a local guild. These freemasons formed a guild of their own, with a code of signs and passwords. All talk about the antiquity of Freemasonry is myth, pure and simple. Freemasonry, as it exists to-day, began with the foundation of the Grand Lodge of England, June 24, 1717. In the beginning it was just a social organization. By degrees it developed into its present form and purpose. Modern Freemasonry is not a continuation of the Catholic freemason guilds which preceded it. The Catholic guilds were formed by craftsmen who, as said previously, went from one city or country to another, wherever a Gothic cathedral was being erected, in order to help in its construction. On the decline of Gothic architecture Catholic Freemasonry ceased to exist, or rather was absorbed by local guilds. Freemasonry as it now exists is absolutely a non-Catholic foundation of the beginning of the eighteenth century. It was introduced into the United States about the year 1730, and subsequently into France, Germany, Italy, and Europe generally.

Why is the Catholic Church opposed to Freemasonry? The shortest and best answer is because Freemasonry is opposed to the Catholic Church. Even to some Freemasons this statement will come as a shock. But we must remember what was said previously by authoritative men of the order, that the rank and file of Masonry are ignorant of its real significance. Moreover, Masonry in this country and in England has not openly adopted the measures against the Catholic Church which have been employed by Freemasonry in France, Italy, and other Continental countries. In fact, English and American Freemasonry have endeavored to deny connection with the revolutionary and anti-religious Freemasonry of Continental Europe. But only they attempt to do this who are not initiated in the real inner purposes of the order. In proof of this let me say, that when the English public was shocked at the anarchistic and irreligious activities of Continental Freemasonry, and disclaimed fraternity with these societies, it called forth a protest from authoritative Masonic sources. In the Official Bulletin, 1885, VII, 29, we find the following reprimand of English Freemasonry for its denial of union with Continental, by no less a personage than Pike himself, who of all men should know the nature of the fraternity. "When the journal in London which speaks of the Freemasonry of the Grand Lodges of England, deprecatingly protested that the English Freemasonry was innocent of the charges preferred by the Papal Bull, and that it did not sympathize with the loose opinions and extravagant utterances of part of the Continental Freemasonry, it was very justly and very conclusively checkmated by the Romish organs, with the reply, 'It is idle for you to protest, you are Freemasons. You give them countenance, encouragement, and support, and you are jointly responsible with them and cannot shirk that responsibility.'" These are hard and plain words to be applied to the order by one who held highest position in it.

In further confirmation let me quote from the Cyclopedia of Fraternities, p. XV. "Few who are well informed on the subject will deny that the Masonic fraternity is directly or indirectly the parent organization of all modern secret societies, good, bad and indifferent." The activities of Continental Masonry became so revolutionary that they occasioned the following communication from the Registrator of the London Grand Lodge to the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts. "We feel that we in England are better apart from such people. Indeed Freemasonry is in such bad odor on the Continent of Europe, by reason of its being exploited by Socialists and Anarchists that we may have to break off relations with more of the Grand Bodies who have forsaken our landmarks" (New Age, New York, 1909, I, 177).

Although apparently condemning the outrages of Continental Masonry, the real guiding spirits of English-speaking Freemasonry are working hand in hand with their Continental brethren. The Grand Commander of the Mother Supreme Council of the World, A. Pike, in a letter Dec. 28, 1886, to the Italian Grand Commander says: "The Papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer of humanity, the most shameless imposture in its presence to spiritual power of all ages . . . In presence of this spiritual cobra, this deadly, treacherous, murderous enemy, the most formidable power in the world, the unity of Italian Masonry is of absolute and supreme necessity . . . The Freemasonry of the world will rejoice to see accomplished and consummated the unity of the Italian Freemasonry" (Official Bulletin, Sept. 1887, 173).

In further proof that Masonry is unified the world over, let me quote a Past Grand Master, Clifford: "The absolute oneness of the craft is a glorious thought. Neither boundaries of States, nor vast oceans separate the Masonic fraternity. Everywhere it is one. There is no universal church, but there is a universal fraternity, Freemasonry" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1906, II, 132).

Individual Masons and local fraternities may be sincere in disclaiming association with the dreadful doings of the order in other lands, but it is because they do not know what is going on among those who control the activities of their order. Having demonstrated, from official and public sources, the brotherhood which exists among Freemasons the world over, let us see why the Catholic Church is opposed to the order, and excommunicates those of her subjects who join it. I shall make no charges of my own against Freemasonry, but shall let it speak for itself. Senator Delpech, President of the Grand Orient, in an address Sept. 20, 1902, said: "The triumph of the Galilean (Jesus Christ) has lasted twenty centuries. But now He dies in His turn. The mysterious voice, announcing the death of Pan (to Julian the Apostate), to-day announces the death of the impostor God. Brother Masons, we rejoice to state that we are not without our share in this overthrow of the false prophets. The Romish Church, founded on the Galilean myth, began to decay rapidly from the very day on which the Masonic association was established" (Compte-rendu Gr. Or. de France, 1902, 381). That is plain language and plain opposition to Christianity. Italian Masonry is even more radical than the French, and proclaims that it is supported by the Freemasonry of the world, and especially by the Masonic centers at Paris, Berlin, London, Madrid, Calcutta and Washington ("Riv." 1842-291; Gruber, "Mazzini" 215).

In our own country official Freemasonry's attitude toward Catholicism is seen in the following declaration: "Popery and priestcraft are so openly allied that they may be called the same. Nothing that can be named is more repugnant to Masonry, nothing to be more carefully guarded against, and this has always been well understood by all skillful masters" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1887, I. 35). In the countries where the Catholic Church has been persecuted it is well known that it was in great part the work of Masons. From the official documents of French Masonry it is manifest that all the anti-clerical measures passed in the French Parliament were decreed beforehand in the Masonic lodges, and executed under the direction of the Grand Orient. Masse, the official orator of the Assembly of 1898, declared that: "It is the supreme duty of Freemasonry to interfere each day more and more in political and profane struggles. Success (in the anticlerical combat) is in large measure due to Freemasonry. If the Bloc has been established, this is owing to Freemasonry and to the discipline learned in the lodges. For a long time Freemasonry has simply been the Republic in disguise. We are each year the funeral bell, announcing the death of a cabinet that has not done its duty, but has betrayed the Republic. We need vigilance and, above all, mutual confidence if we are to accomplish our work, as yet unfinished. This work, you know, the anti-clerical combat, is going on. The Republic must rid itself of the religious congregations, sweeping them off by a vigorous stroke; the system of half measures is everywhere dangerous, the adversary must be crushed with a single blow" (Compte-rendu Grand Orient, 1903; Nourisson, "Les Jacobins" 266-271). If that is not opposition to Christianity nothing is. The President of the 1902 Assembly said with regard to the French elections of that year, "We would have been defeated by our well organized opponents, if Freemasonry had not spread over the whole country" (Compte-rendu, 1902-153). From these declarations it is evident that Freemasonry is an active and irreconcilable opponent of Catholicism.

In some countries, our own, for instance, and England, where public opinion does not countenance irreligion, Freemasonry does not disclose its attitude toward Christianity. But in very truth, the essence of Freemasonry is opposition to revealed religion. If its main assaults are against Catholicism it is because the Catholic Church is the main bulwark of Christianity. Freemasonry employs the symbols and the terminology of religion in order the better to carry out its purpose. As said previously, American and English Masons among the rank and file are unacquainted with the real purpose of the order. They even praise Freemasonry as an upholder of religion, and quote their ritual to prove it. But the religion which Freemasonry upholds is the religion which ignores the revelation of Jesus Christ, and assails the doctrines which His divinely instituted Church proclaims. "The two systems of Romanism and Freemasonry are not only incompatible, but they are radically opposed to each other" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1884, II., 17). Hence Voltaire, who spent his life fighting Christianity, was welcomed into the ranks of Freemasonry by solemn initiation, Feb. 7, 1778, and received the Masonic garb from no less a personage than the famous Helvetius (Handbuch, 3rd ed., II. 517).

This was at a time when Voltaire was employing all his resources to destroy the Church of Christ. Continental Freemasonry is unquestionably anti-Christian. This is so evident that English and American Masons have endeavored to repudiate connection with the French and Italian fraternities. But those who are in the secret of Masonic activities and aims, know, and have declared that the aims of the order are the same the world over, expediency dictating that they be camouflaged in certain places and under certain conditions. As said before, the individual Mason may or may lot know the secret purpose of the order. Most of the members, even those in advanced degrees, look upon the order as simply Fraternal and philanthropic. In our characterization of the order we specify the order only, and its essential aims, not the individuals who compose it, most of whom would never join it if they knew its real nature.

In the United States, in many places, Freemasons and Catholics Fraternize in society, business, and sport. In certain localities Freemasonry has actually joined hands with Catholic organizations for social and other undertakings. In point of fact Freemasonry has officially praised one of the foremost organizations of the Catholic Church in the United States. The following statement concerning the Knights of Columbus speaks for itself: "The ceremonial of the order teaches a high and noble patriotism, instills a love of country, inculcates a reverence for law and order, urges the conscientious and unselfish performance of civic duty, and holds up the Constitution of our country as the richest and most precious possession of a Knight of the Order" (Committee of Masons, Report on the Knights of Columbus).

This tribute to a distinctively Catholic fraternity was doubtless given in good faith, and with good intention, on the part of those who issued the report. This is perfectly compatible with the real opposition of the order, as an order, to the Catholic Church. Let as recall the words of Oliver, a Freemason himself, and one of its highest authorities: "Masons may be fifty years Masters of the Chair and yet not learn the secret of the Brotherhood" (Oliver, Hist. Landmarks, I, 11, 21). Moreover, when English-speaking Masonry was appalled at the anarchistic and anti-religious activities of Continental Masonry, and protested against it, Pike, a Mason in highest office in the United States, declared officially that English-speaking Masonry could not repudiate or disown the European aims and activities of the order, since the aims of Freemasonry were the same the world over.

In time of war the soldiers in the ranks, and often commissioned officers, know little or nothing of the plans and purposes of their superior officers. They have no personal hostility to the soldiers of the enemy army, often fraternizing with them when occasion offers. Notwithstanding this, the two armies are opposed to each other, and the men in the ranks, without knowing the mind of the commanding general, are executing his commands and carrying out his purposes. It is against the enemy, as an organized opposition, and not against individual soldiers, that war is declared and fought. A government would condemn a subject as guilty of treason if he went over to the enemy ranks. This is what the Catholic Church does if one of her subjects joins the Freemasons. She knows, not from hearsay, but from official documents, and from actual hostilities, that Freemasonry, as an institution, is unequivocally and essentially opposed to her. She stands for revealed religion. Freemasonry ignores revelation, and in European countries openly employs all its resources to crush the one Church which upholds in its entirety the religion of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church would be a coward, and a traitor to her trust if she did not oppose Freemasonry, and excommunicate any of her subjects who joined its ranks. In the words of a high Masonic authority quoted previously, "The two systems of Romanism and Freemasonry are not only incompatible, but they are radically opposed to each other" (Parkinson, Freemason's Chronicle, 1884, II, 17).

Recently two facts have made it evident that Masonry in the United States is subtly engaged in warfare on the Catholic Church. It is known that the Oregon School law was directed against parochial schools. This law was instigated by the Scottish Rite Masons of the Southern Jurisdiction, and sponsored by P. S. Malcolm, sovereign grand inspector general in Oregon for the Scottish Rite Masons.

Very recently a society calling itself the "American Prohibition Protestant Patriotic Protective Alliance" which has for its real object warfare on Catholicism, gave out the following statement:

"Regularly, beginning with the fall, when the active work of laying the foundation will start, the plans, policies, purposes and special utterances of the 'American Prohibition Protestant Patriotic Protective Alliance' will find expression through The Fellowship Forum, published in Washington.

This publication, which has grown 'from an idea to a million in four years,' is already the world's greatest Protestant interfraternal newspaper, and probably has more circulation than any dozen to fifteen of the leading journals of as many of the largest Protestant denominations. It prints the news of all the leading Protestant fraternal orders, but is not owned or officially controlled by any of them. Its control is vested in individuals all of whom are thirty-third degree Masons" (New York Times, June 25, 1925)."

Notwithstanding this open declaration, there are some frivolous Catholics who see no harm in Freemasonry, and criticize the Church for condemning her subjects for joining it. As well say there is no harm in a soldier joining the enemy ranks in time of war. Freemasonry is at war with Catholicism. If these same persons assumed such an attitude toward the enemy of their country they would be set down as traitors. Our government knows who and what her enemies are. So does the Catholic Church know her opponents. In Italy and France she beholds spiritual devastation from Freemasonry more destructive and deplorable than the material damage wrought by the World War in these countries. And official Masonry proclaims unity of aim of Freemasonry throughout the world. In some countries it has subordinated the public welfare to its own aims. It has been active in bringing about legislation not only hostile to religion but to the State also. In Italy, Freemasonry was gradually supplanting the government. As proof I quote the following from her greatest statesman and staunchest patriot. "It is an outrage that the highest functionaries of state should frequent the lodges, inform the lodges, take orders from the lodges. It is inadmissible; it must end" (Mussolini, in Italian Parliament). If the Catholic Church were not opposed to Freemasonry, the most surprised organization in the world would be Freemasonry itself.

Imagine what a disloyal organization the Catholic Church would be if she were not opposed to a society whose spokesmen thus characterized her founder: "The triumph of the Galilean (Jesus Christ) has lasted twenty centuries. But now He dies in His turn. The Roman Church, founded on the Galilean myth, began to decay rapidly from the very day on which the Masonic association was established" (Compte-rendu Gr. Or. de France, 1902, 381).

Is it surprising, in view of this declaration, that American Masonry has officially stated, "We won't make a man a Freemason until we know that he isn't a Catholic" (Freemason's Chronicle, 1890, II, 347). A Catholic should consider himself bereft of self-respect to join an organization essentially opposed to his religion, and which, furthermore, proclaims that it does not want him unless he is a renegade to his faith. Let us, as Catholics' trust our Church as much as citizens trust their government. Let us be at least as loyal to our Church as we are to our country. No self-respecting citizen would turn his back on his country and go over to the ranks of his country's professed enemy. Freemasonry, let it be repeated, is the professed enemy of Catholicism. No Catholic with any sense of loyalty or a spark of faith will join the ranks of Freemasonry. Freemasonry offers many social and business inducements to its members. That explains how it recruits an army of followers whom it uses in its own way, often unknown to the many, to carry out its purpose, just as a skilled military board uses an immense army to do its will. No Catholic at heart can even think of giving support to the Church's sworn enemy. The most authentic documents proclaim Masonry to be the uncompromising foe of Catholicism. The Catholic who becomes a Mason has ceased to be a Catholic. Benedict Arnold received many emoluments and high distinction for going over to the enemy. But Benedict Arnold was despised even by those who used him.

Masonry has the trappings of religion, but of a religion which is its own, not Christ's. In order to gain the support of Christian men against Christianity, it employs symbols and a ritual which impress the observer. It needs a great army in order to carry out its purpose. It is closely united throughout the world in its aims. It has shown its hand where it could do so, with the result that it is in open war on religion in most Continental countries, and also in some South American countries.

It seeks to destroy revealed religion, and to establish in its stead a religion of naturalism. Hence its aim is to destroy Catholicism, the one religion in the world which effectually maintains the religion of Jesus Christ. The rank and file of Masonry are for the most part, and especially in this country, ignorant of the real purpose of the organization. The Catholic Church is opposed to Freemasonry as an organization sworn to her destruction. Toward Freemasons, personally, the Church has the kindest regard. Christ, who condemned sin, loved the sinner and gave His life for his salvation. The Church condemns Freemasonry, but would make every sacrifice for the spiritual welfare of the individual Mason. If the Catholic Church were not opposed to Masonry she would be false to Christ. The Catholic who joins Freemasonry is as much a traitor to Christ as was Benedict Arnold to his country. This is plain speech, but true, and no one knows it better than the guiding spirits of Masonry. The religion of Masonry is naturalism. The religion of Christ is supernaturalism. They are as incompatible as darkness and light. Christ is the Light of the world. This Light will shine to the end of the world. Many have tried to extinguish it, but today it is brighter than ever. Masonry will pass away, as so many of its predecessors have done. But Christ's Church will endure to the end. He who is God has said it.

THINGS CATHOLICS ARE ASKED ABOUT, by MARTIN J. SCOTT, S.J.

Imprimi Potest: Laurence J. Kelly, S.J. Prapositus Prov. Marylandia Neo-Eboracensis

Nihil Obstat: Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D. Censor Librorum

Imprimatur: + Patrick Cardinal Hayes Archbishop New York

New York, March 17, 1927

Dedicated To James A. Flaherty, Supreme Knight, Knights of Columbus, Whose Life and Character are an Incentive to Loyalty to God and Country, this Volume is Dedicated with the Esteem of the Author

Copyright © 1927 P.J. Kenedy & Sons


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; freemasonry; freemasons; masonry; masons
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To: Cicero
Also, perhaps, Ivan the Terrible's conquests of the Mongols. Ivan was not, to say the least, an admirable or saintly man, but he accomplished one crucial job, at least.

Correcto, Cicero.
From now on we'll call him, Ivan "the mostly" Terrible

161 posted on 09/11/2006 3:09:20 PM PDT by vox_freedom (Matthew 5:37 But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Dear MeanWestTexan,

I'd be inclined to say that the same is true of the York rite ceremonials. I have a book of York rite-related ceremonials. I'll have to go back and re-read some of it (I hate to do it - it's in really small print and so far I've resisted getting reading glasses - so I have to hold the book about two feet from my face in order to read it).

However, my impression from previous readings was that although the imagery used was explicitly Judeo-Christian, I felt that the statement that the moral lessons were drawn from natural revelation still applied, at least as understood from a Catholic perspective.


sitetest


162 posted on 09/11/2006 3:09:32 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: dangus; boromeo

Incidentally, I only meant to show how Free Masons were playing with fire and trying to invert imagery from the Catholic Church; not that they are by nature an intentionally Satanic cult. The immediately preceding argument reminded me that I did NOt want to be lumped in with some of the conspiracy kooks!


163 posted on 09/11/2006 3:16:17 PM PDT by dangus
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To: AxelPaulsenJr

Sorry that you're sad, I'm not sad in the least. I will trust the Church that Jesus established anyday over anything you or anybody else says. What I can't figure is that you seem to discount what is plainly wrote down, BY THEM... not the Catholic Church, huh?


164 posted on 09/11/2006 3:22:39 PM PDT by SaintDismas (.)
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To: MarkBsnr
If you are a Brother Mason, and you are serious about "taking your 32nd degree ring off", I would be amazed.

The RCC has always maintained that the Pope is infallible in matters of Church and faith.

Suggest you read A WORLD LIT ONLY BY FIRE - William Manchester - noted historian.

I am a 32nd KCCH, and have NEVER seen or heard anything that would compromize my belief in Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

165 posted on 09/11/2006 3:55:59 PM PDT by oldtimer
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To: sitetest
As a proud Christian and Freemason, I would be very, very proud of the Roman Catholic Church if it would go to absolute and total war with the abortionists - and vow ex-communication with members of the Church who voted for democRATS who mindlessly still are democRATS.

The murder of unborn children is a crime not even conceived by our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Meanwhile, millions of democRAT Catholics vote like sheeple for the murdering RAT party.

166 posted on 09/11/2006 4:09:32 PM PDT by oldtimer
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To: vox_freedom

Or maybe, Ivan Who Looks a Bit Less Terrible If We Understand the Nature of the Muslim Threat Against Civilization.


167 posted on 09/11/2006 4:20:12 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: oldtimer

Dear oldtimer,

A little off-topic, no?

But anyway, the Catholic Church excommunicates all those who directly and proximately participate in the crime of abortion.

Excommunication, however, is a drastic penalty, and a maxim of the Church is that penalties are applied narrowly.

Thus, merely favoring the legality of abortion doesn't incur automatic excommunication.

However, the Church has declared that politicians who publicly support legalized abortion commit objectively grave evil (the matter of mortal sin), and that those who vote for these politicians because they support legalized abortion also commit objectively grave evil.

I assure you, the Church's war against abortion is quite total. A Catholic politician is in grave sin if he does not hold that eventually, abortion should be entirely banned, even in cases of rape or incest or life of the mother. Is your commitment to life as total?


sitetest


168 posted on 09/11/2006 4:23:46 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: vox_freedom
None of the fraternal organizations existed, except the Masons, when Pope Clement XII's Papal Bull against the Masons was issued in 1737. It was a political, not a religious move. This was the first anti-Masonic stance made by the Catholic church; however, it wasn't the first time someone had decided that their subjects not be allowed to be masons. That "honor" is due Louis XV of France, in 1736. OTOH, when Pope Clement XII sent out that first Bull, King Louis XV, as usual, went against the Pope, whom he had for decades seen the Pope as an Gallacian and NOT worth listening to, since he saw himself as THE most "Christian King" and not the vassal of someone unworthy of being Pope.

At the time period we're talking about, Catholic and Protestant Europe had been waging both literal and verbal war with each other, for centuries. Alliances and wars and even which Prince got elected ( yes, ELECTED !) to be THE HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR. The Papal Bull of 1738 had far more to do with Maria Theresia being a girl and thus incapable of being crowned the Holy Roman Emperor, than the spurious garbage about Masons supposedly being against the Catholic church. I suggest that you read up on European history. I have neither the time nor inclination to spend the rest of this evening explaining to you why the first and subsequent Papal Bulls are spurious libel. I will give you a book list, though, should you so desire to become educated on this topic.

169 posted on 09/11/2006 4:31:48 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Conservative til I die
But obviously, one can obviously believe all kinds of drivel, post it to FR, and imagine that he and he alone has the facts; you just proved that.

And yes, it IS a fact that one of the reasons the Catholic church is against Freemasonry, is because Masons can be of any religion, as long as they are of good character and believe in GOD. And it IS this component, which set Pope Clement XII to write the first Bull against Freemasonry; which WAS political, not really "religious" ( except in reference to the English Protestant's take on how they wanted to be governed....vis-a-vis the way in which Catholic nations were managed by their Kings of that time ), and the fact that several Catholic kings and queens were afraid of having to give up some of their power, if their subjects were to be any more influenced by fellow Masons.

With time, later Popes added onto the original ideas, until the defamation grew quite out of hand.

Your last sentence is without substance, merit, and means nothing, re Catholics being a Mason.

170 posted on 09/11/2006 4:48:33 PM PDT by nopardons
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Garcia_Moreno


171 posted on 09/11/2006 4:59:48 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: MarkBsnr
Masons AND Shriners have been donating VERY expensive and much needed medical equipment ( such as iron lungs, when polio was rampant ) to nonMasonic and nonShriner hospitals for more than 100 years, in America.
172 posted on 09/11/2006 5:07:51 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ConservativeMind
They may have stood for something at one time, but from what I've heard, both are in great decline and are now largely irrelevant.

Irrelevant?

I can't speak for the Masons, but I can certainly speak for the Knights. I'm a Fourth Degree Knight here in San Antonio.

Some of the "irrelevant things" we do as Knights include:

Hurricane Katrina

The Knights of Columbus Gulf States Disaster Relief Fund grew to more than $10 million, and that financial aid was supplemented by hundreds of thousands of volunteer hours of service by Knights in the immediate area (hundreds of Knights worked eight-hour shifts at the Houston Astrodome, for example) and by Knights throughout the U.S. and Canada, who collected clothing, food and other staples for storm victims.

The Knights of Columbus also quickly provided badly needed resources to Catholic Charities offices in Baton Rouge, La., and Mobile, Ala., when they were suddenly overwhelmed with thousands of people who escaped the storm with little but the clothes on their backs. The Knights wired $200,000 to Baton Rouge Catholic Charities just a few days after the storm hit, long before resources were available from any other source. Individual Knights of Columbus at dozens of K of C halls in the region served thousands of meals to evacuees, and several halls were made available to police and national guard officials for use as temporary command centers.

The Knights of Columbus also made significant contributions to the restoration of Catholic education in the affected areas, including a $500,000 grant to the New Orleans Catholic school system, which paid tuition expenses for hundreds of low-income students whose parents were suddenly left without jobs or income.

September 11

The Knights of Columbus were one of the first organizations to offer relief to families of fallen police, firefighters and emergency personnel – within two days of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Since 2001, the Knights have also taken the lead in helping the country to remember the day in a prayerful way. Among the highlights of the Knights activities in the aftermath of September 11:

$1.49 million in immediate aid provided to 419 relatives of fallen emergency personnel through the Knights’ Heroes Fund, which began distributing checks to family members – regardless of religious affiliation – within two days of the attacks.

More than $3500 distributed to each recipient for emergency needs. The fund was established September 12, 2001, and the first checks were delivered September 13.

More than 40 members of the Knights of Columbus members were killed on September 11.

Full scholarships to the Catholic college of their choice are available to 29 children of members killed or disabled in the line of duty on September 11 through the Order’s Matthews and Swift Educational Trust Scholarship program.

Irrelevant?

Hardly?

In decline?

NOT A CHANCE!

The Knights are not ones to brag, but we're here, raising money and making a better world. For more and smaller-scope activities, I invite you to look at the Knights in Action section of our website (http://www.kofc.org/un/news/kia/index.cfm).

The Knights ARE relevant and we're not a drinking group (although we do some of that, too!). We're a group of committed Catholic men who serve God through service to our fellow man.


173 posted on 09/11/2006 5:28:57 PM PDT by AlaninSA ("Beware the fury of a patient man." - John Dryden)
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To: tlRCta; RKBA Democrat; fedupjohn; Warthogtjm; markomalley; lneuser; Coleus; ArrogantBustard; ...

Please FReepmail me if you'd like to be added to or removed from the KofC ping list.

174 posted on 09/11/2006 5:32:57 PM PDT by AlaninSA ("Beware the fury of a patient man." - John Dryden)
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To: MeanWestTexan

I didn't know any of that. Thank you for the info.

Seems pretty stupid for men of good will to be at each others throats centuries later over something I'm betting they didn't know about either.


175 posted on 09/11/2006 5:43:12 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: Cicero
I've been invited to join the Masons on a number of occasions. Like you, I can't do it.
176 posted on 09/11/2006 5:45:31 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: starfish923
Nothing the Sikhs said or did in those two instances contradicts my point. There's nothing wrong with a Sikh protesting helmet or knife laws if they're trying to protect their religion. To me that doesn't mean that they're making trouble, anymore than a Catholic hospital protesting a state law mandating they carry birth control does.

Let's face it, if they're was true freedom of religion, our Sikh friends would be able to carry their knives with them and ride their motorcycles without a helmet. But the law does interfere with most religions to some degree. Us Christians, living in a historically Christian company, generally see less of this than newer religions to this country.
177 posted on 09/11/2006 6:36:43 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: MeanWestTexan
"Great Architect of the Universe"

That prhase was actually first coined by John Calvin, who can hardly be called anti-Christian.


Yes, but we're talking about Catholic-Mason relations here, and John Calvin doesn't really hold a lot (or any actually) theological weigh in our Church.
178 posted on 09/11/2006 6:42:29 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: nopardons; Religion Moderator
But obviously, one can obviously believe all kinds of drivel, post it to FR, and imagine that he and he alone has the facts; you just proved that.

You can discuss the issues without resorting to personal attacks.

Your last sentence is without substance, merit, and means nothing, re Catholics being a Mason.

"Did you know you also can't be a Catholic and a Hindu at the same time? Or a Muslim, Jew, Sikh, or Wiccan?"

This was my last sentence. It a) doesn't mention Masons and b) is completely with merit. Are you going to argue a Catholic can also be a Muslim, Jew, Sikh, or Wiccan?

But, to apply this statement to Masons, it is still completely with merit. Catholics cannot be Masons and still be Catholics. Seriously.
179 posted on 09/11/2006 6:51:32 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: MeanWestTexan

Then why are there lodges based upon other religions? Not as many, of course, but they are there.

And I wanted to point out that each of the Grand Lodges in the United States dictates that in all of its lodges, all religious texts are considered equal and serve equally as well in the lodge. If your Master decides that the Bible in your lodge should be replaced by the Koran and the vote is passed, it is so.

Further, you've never heard of a 1st degree member who has taken a 2nd degree at another lodge? You don't think that this is so? Ask around.

You've never heard of all-degree days in which the 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree are done in one lodge in a district and the new member actually joins another lodge? Funny, I've participated in them. I also did an all-degree weekend for the Scottish Rite in the Scottish Rite Theatre at the Masonic Temple in Detroit.

It turns out that I was highly ignorant of a lot during my active days - I was the 3rd degree team leader and made it up the chairs to Senior Warden before I moved out of Michigan - and I'd suggest that you might benefit from some reading yourself.


180 posted on 09/11/2006 7:37:18 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (When you believe in nothing, then everything is acceptable.)
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