Preaching a Pre-Tribulation Rapture Weakens the Church

However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.

The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.

Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.

Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.

The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.

However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!

Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.

All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.

One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.

Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.

One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.

During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?

Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?

Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?

One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.

Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.

In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.

Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.

What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.

The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.

Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.

Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?

Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.

Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.

Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.

At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.

The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.

"2Thess.2:3, 7-9...Now who is “he who now letteth” that is taken out of the the way? It has to be either the church or the Holy Spirit and if the latter, then the church is gone also since it only exists becsuse of the presence of the Holy Spirit in it. After “he who now letteth” is gone, then the “Wicked” one is revealed “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders”. So for a time Satan and his anti-christ are given time to do some work, but the Holy Spirit is not present (which means the church is not present) as He was before He was taken out of the way. This is all before the second coming."

"He who letteth" isn't the church or the Holy Sprit but it is Michael the Archangel.

Jude 11:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke thee."

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy People: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since thre was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy People shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev.12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8.And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Michael is the one that, "he who now letteth".

"After “he who now letteth” is gone, then the “Wicked” one is revealed “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders”."

I understand 2Thess.2:9 in a different way than you. The "he" referenced here is Jesus. He comes after the working of Satan who had power and signs and lying wonders.

"So for a time Satan and his anti-christ are given time to do some work, but the Holy Spirit is not present (which means the church is not present) as He was before He was taken out of the way. This is all before the second coming."

My belief is that Satan is the anti-christ, it is one of the roles he plays. He is given time to work but the church is here. I agree that it will all be before the second coming.

"Clouds", as used here is just an expression that means in a big crowd, as a cloud of locusts. The word "air" means "to breathe, air", meaning your breath of life, your spirit, not the atmosphere. Knowing that we can read the verse differently:

I'd like to think that clouds means,,,clouds...And air,,,is air...The translaters could just as well as said a 'cloud of saints if that's what they meant...I would have if that's what I'd meant...

Then we which are alive, and remain shall be caught up together with them (those that have died before us) in a (huge crowd), to meet the Lord in (our spirit bodies): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And to compare this with the actual verse:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And coupled with the companion verses for the Rapture:

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This is a physical resurrection as well as a spirital resurrection...

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Whether the Rapture is Pre, or Post, it's a physical resurrection and we Christians will meet the Lord in the atmosphere...He doesn't land on the ground as he does at the 2nd coming...

No one will see Him...Not even the Christians...The graves will be opened and the bodies of the dead saints/Christians will undergo a change in mid air as they (and we) are lifted off the face of the earth...

He descends at His 2nd Advent, at the 7th trump, as He told us (1Corin.15:52). The 7th trump is the last trump. Satan comes first at the 6th seal, 6th trump and 6th vial - 666.

An interesting point is why did the translaters of the KJV, who had no clue about a Pre-Trib Rapture, use the term 'at the last trump' as opposed to the last trumpet??? Could it be the last trump of the 1st trumpet???For they go on to say "for the trumpet will sound"...I'm convinced 'this trumpet' is not one of the 7 trumpets sounded during the Tribulation...

The dead "rise first" because they are already with Him, that was what Paul was telling them. They are not in a hole in the ground but with Him.

But yes, they are in a hole in the ground, physically...And for some, their ashes are scattered across the earth and in some cases, outer space...Some are at the bottom of the oceans...

Spiritually, the dead in Christ are with the Lord...At the Rapture, they will physically be with the Lord...

I believe my original assessment was correct...

I understand 2Thess.2:9 in a different way than you. The "he" referenced here is Jesus. He comes after the working of Satan who had power and signs and lying wonders.

Boy Ping, your hermenutics in II Thess 2:9 is as bad as it is in II Thess 2:10. May I refer you to a few commentaries on that verse.

JF&B:
after--according to the working ("energy") of Satan, as opposed to the energy or working of the Holy Spirit in the Church (see on Eph_1:19). As Christ is related to God, so is Antichrist to Satan, his visible embodiment and manifestation: Satan works through him. Rev_13:2, "The dragon gave him (the beast) his power . . . seat . . . great authority."

Gill:
2Th 2:9 - Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan,.... That is, as a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer; for such was the working of Satan with our first parents; he seduced Eve, not only by subtlety, but by lying; he abode not in the truth, is the father of lies, and a murderer from the beginning: and such is the working of antichrist his firstborn; he comes in a deceitful way, under a profession of Christ, and a pretension of faith in him, and love to him; but speaks lies in hypocrisy, for such are his doctrines and tenets; and is not only a murderer of the bodies of the saints, but of the souls of men; which are the wares the whore of Babylon deals in:

Clarke:
2Th 2:9 - Whose coming is after the working of Satan - The operation of GodÃ‚Â’s Spirit sends his messengers; the operation of SatanÃ‚Â’s spirit sends his emissaries. The one comes κατÃ‚Â’ ενεργειαν του Θεου, after or according to the energy or inward powerful working of God; the other comes κατÃ‚Â’ ενεργειαν του Σατανα, according to the energy or inward working of Satan.

Barnes:
2Th 2:9 - Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan - Greek, κατ ̓ ἐνέργειαν τοὺ Σατανᾶ kat' energeian tou Satana. According to the energy of Satan; that is, the energetic or efficient operation of Satan. The word rendered Ã‚Â“after,Ã‚Â” it need not be said to one who looks at the Greek, does not refer to time, but is a preposition, meaning according to; in conformity with; meaning that the manner of his appearing would be accompanied by such works as would show that the agency of Satan was employed, and such as he only could produce. It does not mean that the coming of the Lord Jesus would be after Satan had worked in this manner, but that the manifestation of that wicked one would be with such demonstrations of power and wonder as Satan only could effect. The system over which he presides is originated by Satan, and sustained by those things which he alone can perform. On the word Ã‚Â“Satan,Ã‚Â” see the notes on Job_1:6. The idea is, that it would be under the direction and control of the great enemy of God, and that the things on which it would rely for support could be traced to his agency. In all the pretended miracles to which it would appeal, there would be nothing which Satan could not accomplish.

“Would you warn them if you felt they were in jeopardy?”

Let’s see, clouds are groups of people; air is spirit; rising first means coming down; the restrainer of evil is Michael; and the one who comes according to the workings of Satan is Jesus. All of this truth in code to a brand new church that Paul had only a short time to establish and a Gentile one at that. Why would Paul use symbolic language to answer very clear and important questions, like, “if the Lord’s return is at hand what about the dead in Christ?” Or, “we just got this message that the Lord is returning, is it true?” when all he has to do is use the usual meaning of words they would understand, like clouds mean clouds and air means air and we will rise to meet Jesus who is bringing the dead in Christ with Him to be united with their resurrection bodies. Now that is a heck of a lot clearer than the tortuous route of symbol.

Gentiles would have no knowledge of Michael, the prince of Israel. He is only mentioned twice in the Old Testament in Daniel 10. Why would baby Gentile Christians jump to the conclusion that “he that restrains” would be an angel when they have been taught that God, the Holy Spirit is present with them to lead, comfort and guide them unlike His operation during the time of Daniel? Is the Holy Spirit incapable of multi-tasking?

How can you warn with such an uncertain sound?

Just a simple question, is the Holy Spirit and the church on earth during the opening of the seals, trumpets and vials in Rev. 6-9, 11, 15-16? In other words is the church going through God’s judgments?

Yes, anyone living at that time, including the "church" are on earth during the opening of all the seals, trumps and vials. Is the church going through God's judgments - Yes, and hopefully we will be "judged" worthy. Others will not.

Will we experience God's wrath? No, we will not if we haven't followed Satan. We will however be fully assaulted during Satan's tribulation.

Matt.24:15.When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whosoreadeth, let him understand:)
21.For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The assault of his tribulation is lies and deceit. If you are sealed with God's Word he cannot touch you.

(Rev. 6-9, 11, 15-16) - 9-11 refer to those that have died before us and are part of the army He brings with Him when He returns. 15-16 refer to those on earth that believed the lie. When they see the true Christ they will realize they were taken but it will be too late.

I'm trying to answer your posts in order given but I have only a short time this morning before I leave for work so I'll take this question out of order.

When push comes to shove, I think we will all someday find out that we were all wrong in one way or another.

I agree completely but isn't the search for His truth a wonderful trip?

No but some people think we are all brainwashed. Hogwash.

I agree again. I believe this is part of "someday we will find we were all wrong in one way or another".

Nobody is in jeopardy for having a mistaken notion about eschatology. Nobody will go to hell because they didn't have correct beliefs about the rapture. Having a mistaken belief about the rapture is not a sin.

I'm afraid that here we disagree. If one should die before the 2nd Advent then there is no harm as long as they have accepted Christ. Belief in the rapture or not wouldn't have any effect on them as they did not follow Satan during his tribulation. It will only be a jeopardy if they don't wait for the true Christ and fall for Satan playing like he is the Lamb. As scripture tells us, "The whole world will wonder after him". His time seems to be drawing closer.

If one should die before the 2nd Advent then there is no harm as long as they have accepted Christ.

Can you name any pre-tribulationists that you know who have not already accepted Christ?

Now can you name for me anyone that you know that does not believe in the Rapture who has not accepted Christ?

I suspect that the first list will be much shorter than the second.

Belief in the rapture or not wouldn't have any effect on them as they did not follow Satan during his tribulation. It will only be a jeopardy if they don't wait for the true Christ and fall for Satan playing like he is the Lamb.

Is God going to allow any of his sheep to be devoured by Satan? The sheep will follow Christ. The goats will follow Satan.

As scripture tells us, "The whole world will wonder after him". His time seems to be drawing closer.

Those who follow Christ are in the world, but not of the world. The world will follow Satan. They always have. The tribulation will be no different. It's just that during the tribulation they will suffer the Wrath of God for their disbelief.

Can you name any pre-tribulationists that you know who have not already accepted Christ?

No, I can't.

Now can you name for me anyone that you know that does not believe in the Rapture who has not accepted Christ?

Yes, I can.

Is God going to allow any of his sheep to be devoured by Satan? The sheep will follow Christ. The goats will follow Satan.

Yes, He tells us He allows it. That is my concern.

The Bible culminates with the great battle for souls at the end of this age. He tells us how difficult it will be, warns us of what to look for and tells us exactly what is expected of us. For those which, "had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Rev.19:4-5)

Those that worship the beast will do it unknowingly. Is rapture part of that? Is that the deception of end times?

Those that worship the beast will do it unknowingly.

There are only two sides in this battle. Those who follow Christ and those who follow the world. Those who follow Christ will not follow the beast. They belong to Jesus. Those who choose to reject Christ will, by default, follow the beast.

I do believe that the Church will be taken out of the picture prior to the introduction of the beast simply because the Tribulation is the 70th Week of Daniel and the 70th Week of Daniel is the last week for Israel. The tribulation is the day of the Lord promised to the Children of Israel in which God will purify his nation by fire. The age of the Gentiles will end as the last week mentioned in Daniel:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Who were the "Thy people" mentioned in Daniel? Was it the gentiles? No. It was the Jews and the Nation of Israel.

It is at the end of the 70th week that all these things will be fulfilled. Revelation refers to the sealing of 144,000 Jews who are referenced as the servants of God. If there were millions of Gentile Christians on the earth during the beginning of the Tribulation, then why does God seal 144,000 Jews and place them in the special place of having the seal of the Living God placed upon their foreheads? Why does he not do this to the millions upon millions of Gentile Christians?

My answer is because they are all busy worshipping the Lord at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at this time.

Yes, there are only two sides. The Christians that "reject" Christ do not choose to reject Christ knowingly - they believed the lie. That is what is so sad.

Who were the "Thy people" mentioned in Daniel? Was it the gentiles? No. It was the Jews and the Nation of Israel.

The Jews are not the "House" of Israel, the 12 tribes. The "Nation" of Israel wasn't founded until 1948. Those mentioned in Rev.7:4 are "of all the tribes of the children of Israel". The Jews, the tribe of Judah, are only one of those tribes.

The ‘Rapture’ is probably Jezebels greatest work.

Revelation 2

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

Also: Proverbs 7

"Clouds", as used here is just an expression that means in a big crowd, as a cloud of locusts.".....I'd like to think that clouds means,,,clouds...And air,,,is air...The translaters could just as well as said a 'cloud of saints if that's what they meant...I would have if that's what I'd meant...

I probably would have too Iscool, but Paul didn't. He used that same expression in another verse, it was just his manner of speech: Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, (Heb.12:1)

"1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.....This is a physical resurrection as well as a spirital resurrection"...

It is my belief that Paul tells us differently in the following verses:

1Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another
42.So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised incorruption.
44.It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

One other verse to consider in all of this is Ezekiel 13:20. Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Could that be a reference to rapture?

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