Posted on 02/10/2008 1:46:46 PM PST by wagglebee
A bishop described as "one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought" is now challenging the widely held belief that Christians go to heaven when they die.
N.T. "Tom" Wright, the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England who has been praised for his staunch defense of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ, has published a new book in which he says people do not ascend to God's dwelling place. Instead, God will be coming back to Earth.
"Never at any point do the Gospels or Paul say Jesus has been raised, therefore we are we are all going to heaven," Wright told Time Magazine. "I've often heard people say, 'I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.' That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Most protestants rejected the belief along with seven sacraments, etc., however given that the reformation came after scholastic theology, some remnants remained within some of the protestant and via media traditions.
“That being said, I am in agreement that saved Christians are in Heaven today and not awaiting the Second Coming or Last Judgment beforehand.”
I agree. In my studies I’m persuaded that the regenerate spirits of Christians are in heaven awaiting the physical resurrection of their glorified bodies. Since Jesus’s resurrection Christians are ushered into Heaven instead of Paradise. The person in this article is simply wrong about the Gospels and teaching of Paul. Most who read the NT can confirm this obvious error.
Maybe. Did you see this thread?
You can see some of the reaction here.
I think you are right, and I think Wright is right.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18 is pretty clear as to what happens to the dead in Christ now and in the future (when Christ comes again).
Further, Paul specifically says that this is “...by way of the Lord...”. That, I would think, if you believe in Scripture, is a rather solid seal of endorsement that this is the way it is.
As to the thief on the Cross...it could be that this was a special case, reserved for him and him alone...I think Christ would have the right to do that, don’t you?
Alex...Wright is a firm believer in the Resurrection, that’s why I’m always skeptical when people post religious items from WND, especially from that great theologian, Joseph Farah.
true and He has chosen you and me, but we must choose Him by accepting Him and His promises and striving to live a Christ-like life. Our entry into the next life is really up to each one of us. It is not automatic.
“..Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory...”
If anyone in the Anglican Church accepts the 39 Articles, they don’t go along with the doctrine of purgatory. (Article XXII, dated 1801)
Yes.
Welcome to England, muslims! Feel free to take over; the Christians aren’t what they used to be over there.
In point of fact, the teaching of the ancient and undivided Church, still preserved by the Orthodox, even if forgotten by Western Christians, is that the souls of those who are saved go to Paradise (as Christ told the penitent thief he would), not to Heaven (or properly any one of the Heavens), or, if they have unrepented sins, temporarily to Hades (which is a place of confinment only, not of punishment), either until the General Resurrection and the Last Judgement, or until the prayers of the Church move God’s mercy to send their guardian angel to lead them to Paradise.
The Anglican bishop’s emphasis on the General Resurrection is quite correct. Christ said “I am the Resurrection”, not “I am the transmigration of souls”.
Likewise the Holy Apostle Paul speaks at length of being raised in glorious bodies, not of disembodied souls migrating to the presence of God. Indeed the only Scriptural indication of souls awaiting Our Lord’s Second and Glorious Advent in Heaven itself, is the description of the souls of the martyrs crying out from under the altar in the Revelation to St. John.
I think it’s the conclusion of ‘we are all going to heaven’ that he is disputing, not Christ’s Resurrection (though one can never tell with Anglican clerics).
Paradise is the Garden of Eden (in the Septuagint version explicitly called ‘the Paradise which is in Eden’). Heaven is the realm of the angels. The Church has always regarded them as distinct places, even if many Western Christians have forgotten the distinction.
Agreed. Some Anglo-Catholics are not too big on the 39 articles, and it is only a relatively small subset of these who believe in Purgatory.
the 39 Articles are certainly not very “politically correct” in these modern times.
The more casual attitude to the 39 articles is not a question of political correctness from the Anglo-Catholic perspective, but it from the progressive protestant perspective. The Anglo-Catholic view tends to see them along with the Elizabethan settlement before them more as a political compromise than great theology. The progressive protestant view is that the 39 Articles were the best understanding at the time,given the limited level of 19th century human enlightenment, but now that they have the millennium goals, and a fuller understanding of Gaea, the 39 articles can be redefined to a more contemporary understanding along with the Bible, the US Constitution and the Hardy Boys mysteries.
Bishop Wright is a prolific writer, incredibly so and sometimes they say too much.
But I have a lot of respect for him. He is far more orthodox than most English bishops.
When will he proclaim himself to be a God?
“Historic documents” - We consigned the 1979 BCP to the garage years ago. 1928 is where it’s at!
Here is the literal translation from the Greek: and Jesus said to him, "Verily I say to thee, Today with me thou shalt be in the paradise."
But.....since we all know there is no punctuation in the Greek....I can just as easily say this: and Jesus said to him, "Verily I say to thee Today, with me thou shalt be in the paradise".
The good Bishop is correct....otherwise....what would be the purpose for the resurrection? There are no scriptures that say "anyone is going to heaven"....."has been to heaven"....."I'll see you in heaven"...."we'll have a great time in heaven"....or anything of that nature. But....the scriptures do say this: [John 3:13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Those of you that are going to try and throw [II Kings 2:11] at me please read [John 3:13] again. It says....and Our Saviour is the one doing the talking.....NO MAN!
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