Can I accept a Kröner? With a hole in the middle?
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Posted on 03/11/2008 8:32:50 AM PDT by Dada Orwell
That’s right. Anyone who travels abroad gets a passport, and all who have a passport already have REAL ID. I just had my passport renewed through the Consulate in Shanghai, and when the new one came, I saw that it has a microchip in it.
You make a good point. Christians face much larger problems than Real ID.
That being said, I think Real ID is a bad idea. More government intrusion always is.
If you’re not worried about black helicopters monitoring what TV shows you watch, you can buy a gadget that will connect to your box wirelessly—basically a cordless phone with a transmitter base at the phone jack and a receiver on your satellite box.
Yah, I keep hearing this from the conspiracy types.
But identification does not infringe on liberty. And the security it provides is merely that someone else may not falsly claim to be me. This in fact broadens and protects my liberty. There is no trade-off.
“Thanks. Looks like a good resource.” ~ Quix
Both of my links are good resources - but not ones with which you’d agree. Better check closer. LOL
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1983867/posts?page=4#4
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1983867/posts?page=5#5
And here’s even more:
Cerinthus [the heretic] embraced chiliasm, a form of apocalyptic vision that depicted the millennium as a physical and material period.
In North Africa there arose the Donatists, led by Tyconius, who predicted that the world would end in 380 C.E. Augustine, then Bishop of Hippo, took aim at the sect in an effort to disprove what he termed “out-dated and inappropriate dreams of an earthly paradise.” After his death in 430 C.E., a council of church leaders meeting at Ephesus condemned the literalist vision of a physical, worldly millennialist utopia.
Eusebius is one of the early church fathers who most clearly denounces “chiliasm,” as premillennialism was then called. In the same work he writes, “About the same time … appeared Cerinthus, the leader of another Heresy.
Caius, in The Disputation attributed to him, writes respection him: ‘But Cerinthus, by means of revelations which he pretended as if they were showed him by angels, asserting, that after the resurrection there would be an earthly kingdom of Christ, and that flesh, i.e. men, again inhabiting Jerusalem, would be subject to desires and pleasures. Being also an enemy to the divine scriptures, with a view to deceive men, he said that there would be a space of a thousand years for celebrating nuptial festivals.’”
Eusebius also writes of a tradition passed down by Polycarp regarding an encounter between the Apostle John and Cerinthus in a public bath, “He [Polycarp] says that John the Apostle once entered a bath to wash; but ascertaining that Cerinthus was within, he leaped out of the place and fled from the door, not enduring to enter under the same roof with him, and exhorting those with him to do the same, saying, ‘Let us flee, lest the bath fall in, as long as Cerinthus, that enemy of the truth is within.’”
Tertullianus is another early church father who attributes chiliasm’s birth to Cerinthus. He writes: “They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years, who think with the heretic Cerinthus. For the Kingdom of Christ is now eternal in the saints, although the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection.”
http://members.aol.com/twarren19/athacreed.html
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Justin Martyr (A.D.150)
CHAP. XI.WHAT KINGDOM CHRISTIANS LOOK FOR.
“And when you hear that we look for a kingdom, you suppose, without making any inquiry, that we speak of a human kingdom; whereas we speak of that which is with God, as appears also from the confession of their faith made by those who are charged with being Christians, though they know that death is the punishment awarded to him who so confesses. For if we looked for a human kingdom, we should also deny our Christ, that we might not be slain; and we should strive to escape detection, that we might obtain what we expect. But since our thoughts are not fixed on the present, we are not concerned when men cut us off; since also death is a debt which must at all events be paid.” (First Apology of Justin Martyr, ch. 11)
“Chiliasm found no favor with the best of the Apostolic Fathers... “ (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, v. 25 - 36 ).
Eusebius (A.D.325)
“This same historian (Papias) also gives other accounts, which he says he adds as received by him from unwritten tradition, likewise certain strange parables of our Lord, and of His doctrine and some other matters rather too fabulous. In these he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations. For he was very limited in his comprehension, as is evident from his discourses; yet he was the cause why most of the ecclesiastical writers, urging the antiquity of man, were carried away by a similar opinion; as, for instance, Irenaeus, or any other that adopted such sentiments. (Book III, Ch. 39)
Epiphanes (315-403)
“There is indeed a millennium mentioned by St.John; but the most, and those pious men, look upon those words as true indeed, but to be taken in a spiritual sense.” (Heresies, 77:26.)
The belief in the millennium was condemned as superstitious at the Council of Ephesus in 431.
“This obscure doctrine [Chiliasm] was probabally known to but very few except the fathers of the church, and is very sparingly mentioned by them during the first centuries; and there is reason to believe that it scarcely attained much notoriety, even among the learned Christians, until it was made a matter of controversy by Origen, and then rejected by the greater majority. In fact, we find Origen himself saying that it was confined to those of the simpler sort. “ (Waddington’s History, pg. 56)
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A field guide to Heresies: http://kevin.davnet.org/articles/heresy.html
Ebionism
Ebionites considered Christianity as a sect of Judaism. The believed the Jesus was a mere man of exceptional righteousness and a superior endowment of the Spirit which came upon him at his baptism. Some Ebionites accepted, and some rejected, the supernatural conception of Christ. Ebionites were among the Judaizers who attempted to impose the Law of Moses upon Christians. Ebionites were millenialiststhose who believe in a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ on Earth.
The System of Cerinthus
Cerinthus (contemporary of the Apostle John) combined Gnostic views (separating the earthly Jesus who was the son of Joseph and Mary from the heavenly Christ) with the views of the Judaizers. Cerinthus was also a millennealist (also known as chiliasm).
Can I accept a Kröner? With a hole in the middle?
If there is a mark coming, there’s nothing in the Bible to suggest we are supposed to fight it — we are only told not to receive the mark ourselves.
***What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?***
It depends on what the current theological fad is for the time.
Bar code? Telephone number? Internet? Social Security number? Some Seventh-day-adventists still teach that the mark of the beast is...Worshiping on Sunday.
I don’t agree.
I like my sites better.:)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1983867/posts?page=85#85
“And more specifically” ~ RobRoy.
I prefer my specifics:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1983867/posts?page=85#85
Just to be on the safe side, I'm joining the fight against book-marks, too.
Mine is updated every time we get an Update (Got one last night) and has not been plugged into the phone line for over a year.
The only thing the phone line does for you is let you order PPV stuff directly from your TV instead of calling or ordering via the DirecTV website.
Thanks Quix
It takes me a while to respond. please forgive.
Hope you a find a church soon. It is absolutely wonderful to fellowship with other Christians.
I like to think of a church as base camp. Instead of cleaning weapons and getting clean fatigues and all the bennies of base camp, we get to be with those of like mind and refresh our spirits so we can go back out into the world and fight the good fight again.
I will never give up on finding a gathering where I am accepted.
Blessing my brother
Certainly those Scriptures are important to keep in mind in any number of contexts including END TIMES ISSUES.
However, Christ also said to watch; be ready; keep lamps filled and have extra oil (Holy Spirit) but perhaps practically as well . . .
Cluelessness is not exactly a good survival skill.
But, yeah, worry is off limits.
However, I’m not at all shy about using such issues as evangelism tools and to warn nonChristians so that when such events start occurring, they may realize Who’s side they must be on.
“Another church I attended told me that the lost were not welcome and I left immediately. I guess they thought I was an unforgiven sinner. I do look kinda ruff with an oxygen tank , a cane, and walking like Frankenstein .
Like I said, I know that many beloved Christians are fighting the good fight. I sure would like to fight it with them, but now I am just a homebody with more sickness than I care to talk about.”
Sometimes,James, we put our trust in institutions that are
suppose to carry God’s Love and they don’t.
I know it saddens God greatly because it is not what he is
about.
Satan wants you to believe you are unworthy. Christ strengthens you to do his bidding and you are so worthy
in His eyes. The only eyes that count.
***
Christians are not “afraid” and full of “fear” regarding the MOTB. The Bible simply says reject it and they will.
You got it backwards. We do not fear men or what they will do to us because of our obedience to His Word. We only read His Word, obey it. End of story.
Christians have always been mocked, ridiculed, persecuted because of their obedience. (Come on chicken little, you gonna be fraid of a wittle little tattoo on your precious little sanctimonious little Bible thumpin hand there? they mock) Nothing new under the sun.
I wasn’t aware I’d used any difficult vocabulary.
Which part of “acres of computers” and “massive list of keywords” do you have difficulty understanding?
My information came from my highly classified communications tech colleagues in my highly classified Navy communications job.
Such info has been abundantly confirmed by a diversity of sources since then.
Willful ignorance is not a good survival trait.
You are welcome to take the uninformed perspective, if you wish.
I see rightly dividing Biblical END TIMES prophecies is still proving to be an insurmountable problem for some.
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