Posted on 07/17/2008 4:35:12 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
THE "LOST" TEN TRIBES
In a recent discussion of the subject, by P. Asmussim, in a German periodical, the writer shows that the ten tribes never were "lost." Both in the Books of Kings and in the Assyrian inscriptions we have records of the deportations of the inhabitants of the Northern Kingdom, and in leading particulars the accounts agree.
In 734 Tiglath-Pileser led into captivity the people of Gilead and of Galilee, and the districts of Issachar, Zebulon, Asher, Naphtali, Northern Dan, Eastern Manasseh and Gad were incorporated into the Assyrian monarchy. The last king of Israel accordingly ruled over nothing but what was afterwards called Samaria, i.e. the territory of Ephraim, West Manasseh, and the remnants of Benjamin. (Benjamin had not been joined to Judah, as is generally supposed; but Judah had extended her boundaries in the north at the expense of Benjamin as early as the reigns of David and Solomon. The district of Reuben had disappeared during the time of the Kings.)
From this limited territory, Sargon, in 722, according to his own report, led into captivity 27,280 persons, and later on until 711 some few more. In both deportations from all ten tribes the entire number of captives could not have numbered more than 50,000, including women and children.
The system of deportation then practiced by the despots never sent the entire population of a land into exile, and only those influential families who might stir up rebellion against the conqueror, and the artisans who made weapons. These captives formed a small minority in the communities where they settled, and being not very zealous Jews, religiously, they underwent a religious and social amalgamation with the foreign people. (It was different with Babylonian exiles of a century and a half later; they were zealous Jehovists, and were promised a return, so that they adhered to Judaism, lived together in Babylon, the prophetic activity continued, and some of them later returned to Jerusalem as a congregation.)
Those who were deported from the Northern kingdom were an insignificant number compared with the masses that remained, perhaps one-tenth. They were not tribes or large parts of tribes, but only individuals, or at most families. These persons were "lost" to be sure, but the tribes as such remained in Canaan, and absorbed the heathen settlers that were sent in. In later times the division into tribes signified little or nothing, the division into tribal territory was not regarded. In general, the Jew of the New Testament era knew as little from what tribe he came as does the modern Jew. Among modern Jews all these tribes, without any doubt, are their descendents. In other words, the "lost" tribes never have been and are not now "lost."
[Note: All Twelve Tribes were represented in Jerusalem at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.]
Evidently, communication is not occurring.
Someone up thread seemed to indicate that the
12 tribes were no longer identifiable as 12 tribes for various reasons.
I asserted that essentially, I think that’s hogwash.
Witness the Bible’s insistence that in the END TIMES
the 12 tribes will
EACH
have 12,000 evangelists—from EACH TRIBE—IDENTIFIED BY NAME.
That does not say anything about how many other children of Jacob will be saved etc. etc. etc.
But evidently at one point in time, the ball will be played by the 144,000 Israeli evangelists.
Now what you are going on about, I have no idea.
Yeah, this is the old fashioned British Israelism that the editirs of THINGS TO COME were refuting. I’ll archive this info.
Correct on the 12,000 from each tribe being identifiable.
I don't really have questions about scripture -- scripture proofs that the very idea that any Indo-Europeans are Semites is false. Scripture also proves that God came to save ALL of us -- of Abrahamic descent or otherwise, sinners and saints, ALL. Even people of African descent, people from the deepest reaches of the Amazon jungle, from the Andaman islands etc. -- people who were in those places since before the Exodus and who have had no inter-breeding with outsiders. Even THOSE people are saved due to Christ's sacrifice.
Any attempt to debase Christ's message by restricting it on the basis of PERCEIVED genetics, makes us as bad as Muslims who think that descendents of Mohammed as more "purer".
Gen17:3 and Gen 22:18. These scriptures initiate and show Yah’s ETERNAL plan and PROMISE in effect today 2008, where Yahweh said 1.Abraham's descendent's would be as many as the stars and sand. Yah says this 4X so we had better take notice! When Abraham believed this part of the promise it was accredited to him righteousness. (so this is a serious facet of the PROMISE) 2. Yah gave Abraham the land. 3. Yahweh said He would be a elohim to Abraham's descendent's forever. WOW!!!! WHAT A PROMISE. Why do we like Essau despise our BIRTHRIGHT!!! We won't even read the scriptures to find out because the “church” doesn't teach this so we won't bother to go search the scriptures for the truth.
Yup, Abraham's descendents are numerous -- all the Jews, peninsular Arabs, etc. And the Jews ARE a beacon to the nations of the world, as stated by God -- nations like the Europeans, Iranis, Asians, Africans who are not descended from Abraham.
No I do not endorse British Israelite WWCOG doctrine. It isn't scriptural. The tribes were scattered into ALL nations, red and yellow black and white. For Yahweh so loved the WHOLE WORLD that He gave His only begotten son...
The tribes could not have been scattered into ALL nations -- what about the Andamanese who haven't interacted with outsiders for millenia, since way before Exodus. OR Amazonaian tribes? Do you deny them the saving from God? While the rest of us Indo-Europeans may have some traces of Judeans and Israeli blood, we are NOT Israelites. Just as there are some Americans who have traces of Afroid blood but are not Africans
I know these are radical teachings but when Yahshua came the first time He said you follow man's traditions and doctrines. He will accuse this generation, when He returns of the same thing. NOW IS THE TIME TO STUDY THE SCRIPTURES FOR YOURSELF!!! There is no man leading this movement. I came to these teachings on my own through study and revelation. I was as fundamental and evangelical as they come. I could out Baptist any Baptist. But I was a seeker of truth, a polygraph examiner by profession, trained in investigations. What I heard in church did not line up with Scriptures. I studies for years and the Father honored my seeking by revealing these teachings which shows His grand plan as revealed from Genesis to Revelation.
There is no radical teachings -- those are false, un-Christian teachings that seek to limit the blessings of the Savior -- the Savior who came for ALL, descendents of Abraham and otherwise. I have studied scripture and the attempts to link Aryanic peoples to Semites is un-Christian and seeks to diminish Jews and was also the basis of Naziism, a loathsome ideology. Christianity is for all -- read the scripture and don't jump to conclusions off one passage, or you could read into the words from Genesis that there are multiple Gods ("we will make them in OUR image") -- something funny but what comes from jumping to conclusions about the Bible. Mere years on your own attempting to understand an infinite God, will fail. We can understand some parts, but not all. Jumping to conclusions have led to errors as bad as gnosticism (that Yahweh is a false God and there is a higher God), or Arianism (like Christadelphians, Mormons etc. who believe that Christ was a created being), or other errors.
I could write for hours on these teachings to answer your questions. I am a Bible teacher and have put the basic Restoration of Israel teachings on a CD with a insert containing ALL of the Scriptures to back up these teachings, line upon line, precept upon precept. If anyone is interested in these teachings please privately reply to me and I will send you the CD free of charge. I challenge anyone to listen to this CD and check out every scripture and show me any error! I have made this challenge for years and NO ONE has been able to scripturally refute the teachings when studied in context and in completion. These teachings will change your life and deepen your faith walk.
If the Spirit is nudging you, I will be happy to send you the CD. No strings attached
Genesis 49 talks about the tribes characteristics at the time when the nations of Israel and Judah were decimated. It’s not about the end of all time, but it is about the end of days — the end of days for the Israeli kingdom. The “Last days” are the last days of the Israeli and Judaen Kingdom
That shows how little you have read about Middle-Eastern history. Ishmael was the father of the peninsular Arab Bedouins -- from the Najaf or the interior part of the ARabian peninsular. Abraham's third "wife" -- Keturah, was the mother of the Midianites who lived in the Sinai (one of those was Moses' father-in-law, who's sub-tribe became part of the Israelites when the Israelites came out of Egypt.
What you call Arabs now are not of true, historical arab descent -- ARABS, that term truly means only those of Bedouin origin from the Najaf. Genetic studies have proven that the majority of people in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, even if they call themselves Arab are truly of Berber / Imazighen origin. Read that up. They underwent a period of Arabization due to Islam's teaching that essentially Arabs are the top caste and the Querishies, descendents of Mohammed are the top sub-caste of that caste.
People from Egypt are by and large from Coptic / Ancient Egyptian stock, people from Lebanon are Canaanites, from Syria are Arameans, from Turkey are Greek or Lydian or Galatian or Lycian or Armenian origin. People from Iraq are of Chaldean/Assyrian origin.
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Do Arab (Bedouins) Muslims have Jewish blood? Yes -- read about the early history of Islam. In Mecca and Medina you had large Jewish clans who controlled the business there. One of Mohammed's wife was a Jewess. You also had Ethiopian Christians (since Yemen was part of the Ethiopian Empire -- an Ethiopian General had attempted to conquer Mecca barely a decade before Mohammed), as well as Nestorian and Arian Christians, Zoroastrians and of course, the pre-Islamic Bedouin religion (worship centered around the Ka'aba which had statues of Allah/Ba'al Al'llah and his daughter Uzzat, Al'at and Amat).
Mohammed took elements from all these religions and created his mis-mash. He used this primarily to create a Bedouin Empire. The Bedouins then assimilated theJews -- many converted, many were forcibly converted. Hence the basic Muslim Arabs had Jewish blood
You are technically right that Abraham Isaac, Jacob and Moses were not Judeans, however they were the forebears of the Judeans (Moses being the spiritual forefather)
One strand of thought goes that the physical blessings promised by God to Abraham, and passed to his descendents via the birthright, are based upon bloodline whether or not the people of the bloodline know it. This isn't an indicator or barometer of how spiritually good or moral those descendents are. They could be the scum of the earth, but God made the promise and so he will keep that promise.
BUT, and it's a big but, this has nothing to do with salvation or redemption under Christ. As you pointed out, Christ died for all. Black, white, yellow or green. Gentiles become heirs to the "better" promise.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
These promises include the promise of eternal life through the new covenant, mediated by Christ. There is no partiality. Not just native born Israelites, physical Israelites, can take hold of this. And just being a native Israelite doesn't automatically give you the promise of eternal life. All have to come to the promise through Christ.
So....according to your reasoning [Amos 9:9] is "Phony Baloney"! For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. God didn't really want them to migrate and cover the earth. He wanted them (the primary ones) all to stay in the Middle East. Balderdash!
Descendents of the northern tribes are primarily in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan -- neighboring country. Anything otherwise said IS Balderdash and non-Christian.
Benjamin, Simeon were assimilated into Judah due to natural pressures for smaller similar groups to merge into larger, more powerful relatives. Ditto for Reuben merging into the similar culture of the Moabites.
Simeon was not assimilated into Judah. Benjamin was. [II Chronicles 11:1] And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he gathered of the house of Judah and Benjamin an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam. Judah and Benjamin at war against Israel! Simeon, at this time, is one of the ten tribes of the north....at war against Judah (Judah and Benjamin).
Simeon WAS assimilarted into Judah -- look at the map of Israel I posted above. Read the scripture, read WHERE Simeon's territory was. They were NOT in the north. Do you doubt scripture that says Simeon's territory was in Judah's?
Simeon was one of four brothers by Jacob and Leah [Genesis 29:31-35]....Simeon, Reuben, Levi and Judah. Joshua took this into account when he allotted land to Simeon [Joshua 19:1] And the second lot came forth to Simeon, even for the tribe of the children of Simeon according to their families: and their inheritance was within the inheritance of the children of Judah. [Joshua 19:9] Out of the portion of the children of Judah was the inheritance of the children of Simeon: for the part of the children of Judah was too much for them: therefore the children of Simeon had their inheritance within the inheritance of them.
When Solomon continued in his sin God took ten tribes, leaving two tribes under the control of Solomon's son, Rehoboam. Jeroboam took control of the other ten: [I Kings 11:29-32] And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field: And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces: And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:
Ditto for Reuben merging into the similar culture of the Moabites.
You know....you're not following scripture when you make statements like this. Reuben did not merge into Moab. We've gone over this before.... and I offered scripture as proof that Reuben was still around during the deportation to Assyria. You have chosen to ignore it and prattle on about a non existent melding of Reuben and the Moabites. Here is another. This time....why don't you acknowledge it and tell me (and the folks reading this thread) why scripture is in error here?
Scripture is not in error -- your misinterpretation is the error
[1 Chronicles 5:1-6] Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:) The sons, I say, of Reuben the firstborn of Israel were, Hanoch, and Pallu, Hezron, and Carmi. The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son, Micah his son, Reaia his son, Baal his son, Beerah his son, whom Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria carried away captive: he was prince of the Reubenites.
It would be very difficult for the King of Assyria to carry away the Reubenites to exile and captivity if they had melded into Moabite culture and were no longer a viable entity with in Israelite culture. Wouldn't you agree?
It states that ONE person was carried away, not an entire tribe.
You do realize that you are busy spouting Victorian theories brought forth by English in the late 1600s, fully thought up in the Victorian age to justify England's role in the world.
Don't confuse Biblical scripture with man made beliefs. I am no British Israelite!
If you believe that the northern Israelies after being moved by the Assyrians somehow became Cimmerians and Celts and moved to England, then yes, you would be a British Israelite
You’re right — we Indo-Europeans are not direct descendents of the Israelies. However, we are Christ’s people just as much as genetic descendents of Abraham
Yup, the 144,000 will all be Jews. Since there were northerner who moved south, you have members of each of those tribes among the Jews. Hence, 144,000 Jews, the Chosen people will be the ones
No, it's not. It's often characterized that way, but with respect, you didn't read it at all. You couldn't have.
The gist of the link is as I summed up earlier:
" One strand of thought goes that the physical blessings promised by God to Abraham, and passed to his descendents via the birthright, are based upon bloodline whether or not the people of the bloodline know it. This isn't an indicator or barometer of how spiritually good or moral those descendents are. They could be the scum of the earth, but God made the promise and so he will keep that promise.
BUT, and it's a big but, this has nothing to do with salvation or redemption under Christ. As you pointed out, Christ died for all. Black, white, yellow or green. Gentiles become heirs to the "better" promise.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
These promises include the promise of eternal life through the new covenant, mediated by Christ. There is no partiality. Not just native born Israelites, physical Israelites, can take hold of this. And just being a native Israelite doesn't automatically give you the promise of eternal life. All have to come to the promise through Christ. "
"British Israelism" is a catch all term that used to justify some very bad opinions and attitudes. That's not the problem of the theory, but a moral, spiritual or character problem with those who have the wrong attitude about it. You may as well say you don't like Christianity because those who adhere to it think they're better then those who aren't saved. In both cases you're arguing against peoples wrong attitudes and opinion, not against the basic theory itself.
I don't believe that the seemingly never-ending conflicts within that “Triangle” are due to anyone's MIS- interpretations of the Abrahamic territorial promises (excepting the false positions of Islam on the matter). I believe the conflicts are there precisely because that is where the territorial promises (as well as other promises made to Israel as a nation) will be fulfilled, and Satan and all of his hordes are involved in a spiritual warfare over that place.
Now walking with the Israelites is where the second part of your question comes in. I could write pages on this but will just give you a couple of high points. Yahshua says, “if you love me you will keep my commandments.” The New Covenant is where Yahweh writes His LAW ON OUR HEART.
The church has taught us we are not under the law but under Grace. This is a very destructive Roman, man made doctrine.
Yahshua said not only are we to obey the Ten Commandments but if we even THINK! in our hearts an adulterous thought we have committed adultery. Now try to reconcile that with the church's teaching that we are not under the Law. Top that off with “Many will come in that day and say LORD,LORD but I will say depart from me ye BREAKERS OF THE COMMANDMENTS” actually it is workers of iniquity but I put in the translation.
Now I believe most Christians keep the Commandments, although they can't explain why since they think they are not under the law. They keep all the Commandments except for the 4th one concerning keeping the Sabbath day holy.
In 325 AD Constantine and the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH changed the 7th day Sabbath to the 1st day to keep the pagan worshipers of Mithras the Sun god happy. Thousands upon thousands of Believers are now keeping Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as the Sabbath. There are many blessings that come with this but the most important is to fulfill Yahshua’s directive when He said,”If you love me you will keep my Commandments.”
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