Posted on 03/25/2009 1:14:14 AM PDT by OPREV
Nineteen hundred and seventy five years ago, This is the discussion that went on between Jesus and his disciples -
Mat 24:3 As Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him in private. "Tell us when all this will be," they asked, "and what will happen to show that it is the time for your coming and the end of the age."
Mat 24:4 Jesus answered, ....
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
And the most important part ----
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.
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Jesus told the disciples he would come back and take them to heaven in their lifetime. If he didn't come back, then, he lied.
Another translation of verse 34
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till ALL these things be accomplished.
Jesus told the disciples that their generation would not pass away, until he came back and took them to heaven.
Jesus came back, in the 1st century, like he said he would, and, his angels gathered the elect and they went back to heaven. Which means, we live in the millenium.
Rev 20:4 ...and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, ... and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The Greek word used for the "thousand years" is chilioi. Chilioi is a plural word, meaning, 2000, or more. Thus, the millenium would be 2000 or more years.
And we would be at this point in history -
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the next thing we would see is, the Bride coming out of Heaven
Rev 21:9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Jesus came back & the early church left, with him. The rapture is past, the beast & false prophet also, the two witnesses are long gone, as are the 144,000. We live at the very end of history, when Satan is let loose, the armies from the North attack God's people, fire from the sky comes down and kills them, and there is a new heaven and new earth. And the final act is the Bride coming out of heaven. And then it's over. :)
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Enjoy your perspective.
I see the half-life on it rapidly decreasing.
I was agreeing with you I had not looked up the thread to see if yours or mine questions had been answered. And the 65,000 dollar questions answer is 1.
I’m tired enough that I’m not tracking well on all that. Maybe another day.
Thanks.
Frankly, OPREV, you seem to have stated outright a notion Quix seems to implicitly convey: that if you are a provocative and upsetting enough in your statements that you anger people, than you must be doing something right.
It’s true that sometimes the truth is very upsetting, but stirring anger is hardly a good indicator that you’ve just said something correct. Jesus upset the Pharisees because he made them realize that they weren’t acting out of faithfulness, and that was a truth they weren’t wanting to face.
OPREV, you’ve elicited a bold-faced, all-caps, large-typed, multi-colored string of condemnation and references to demonic forces. But just because Quix thinks you’re wrong and you’ve elicited such a response, doesn’t mean you’re right. President Obama sure enrages a lot of conservatives, but that doesn’t mean he’s right.
Quix, Jesus did show righteous fury in the temple. But what provoked both good and evil from those who witnessed him was the content of his words. If you provoke people because of your damning word choice and garish fonts, do you think that really says anything positive about your message? I could log onto Free Republic and just call everyone a bunch of names and get myself zotted. Does that mean I’m right? The Democratic Underground is full of hateful, angry writing, and people to cheer it on. Haven’t you ever heard the crowd of cheers from the audiences at ACORN rallies?
Let the content of your arguments sway people, not your provocative style.
I emailed you the answer.
I appreciate the logic of your perspective.
I don’t really have anything else to add.
Your options/possibilities etc. are not the only ones . . . possible.
I don’t have a great need to try and explain further. The explanations I feel able to make never seem to communicate much to . . . a certain range of folks.
Others either accept me as I am and love me anyway or understand and need no explanation.
I just know that God has designed me as He has for His purposes and that HE GETS ANNOYED if I try and mess too much with HIS design in such matters.
Thanks.
Will check it out.
God bless you! May He grant your petitions with speed and pave the way before you.
Blessings and grace to you and yours.
THANKS FOR YOUR KIND WORDS.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
Did any historians write about these things?
Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened...
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Mat 27:51 and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent;
There was no instant news back then. No CNN, or blogs, or youtube. News traveled by word of mouth or letter. There were no mega-churches, no large gatherings of Christians. How long would before any disappearances would be noticed? Would they think they just went on a journey, or to visit friends or relatives? How would the next city know of the disappearance of people two cities away? Would it be important enough to those left behind that they would send messengers to other cities to find out what happened? How many Christians were there? They were dispersed through all of the empire (1Pe 1:1). They met in their homes. How long would it take to gather all of that information throughout all of the empire? Would the leaders (anti-Christian at that) deem it worthy to make note of? They tried to cover up the resurrection of Jesus and say that his body was stolen. That myth was widespread among the Jews (Mat 28:15). Were people too worried about living their own lives to worry about, a few disapearances of their neighbors? It wouldn't be like today's world, where it would be known instantly that something was wrong. It could have been weeks before they realized people were missing from several different areas. There was panic in Rome over a food shortage in 70AD. Jerusalem was just destroyed and over a million Jews killed. Peter and Paul were killed in Rome, and other Christians were being burned alive and fed to animals etc. Would people just go out and say, "Hey, governor, I want to know where all the Christians went." Or would they be afraid, or, not even give it a second thought? Nero committed suicide in 68AD. There was trouble with 8 legions in 69AD who named a different emperor, and the then current emperor Galba was murdered. There were many things on the minds of the people in those days. Did the disappearance of some "Christians" rank high on their list of worries? The idol manufacturers like Demetrius would have been happy. They probably would have cared less. It wouldn't have been like in our time, where it would be all over the news within a day or so. Much different back then.
I appreciate this perspective, I also happen to be a dufflepud. However, How many people read every line of every thread on FR for the content of arguments? If you want to make a point of truth to warn people what style might you use?
It’s a good question. How DO you make people listen to something you believe is important? In real life, would you just scream everything at the top of your lungs? If someone says something you don’t like, would you really think shouting him down would make you seem like a sane, healthy, spiritual person? Do people with true authority communicate by seeming to have a tizzy fit? Jesus didn’t stalk down people to force them to listen to him; he fled the crowds and yet they still came by the thousands to hear him.
You can’t force people to listen to you. You CAN make yourself credible, so if someone has an inclination to listen to you, they will be moved by what they hear. If someone can’t get people to pay attention to them, maybe they’re best off leaving it to someone who can. If such a person can’t let go to let that happen, maybe that person IS socially inept and self-important.
... and for the record, I don’t get the sense at all that you are like the invisible dufflepuds, who made a lot of noise, but were nonetheless unseen. Then again, once they had faith in who Aslan really was, the dufflepuds put away their foolishness and Aslan loved them...
If you’re not familiar with the dufflepuds, read The Chronicles of Narnia... or at least wait until the next movie comes out... it’ll be the one with the dufflepuds in it.
Was John the Baptist socially inept and self important? What if some posters here have a calling from God. What if their job is to make people uncomfortable. I am currently involved with my spiritual mentor, who I must say, gets it when it comes to God's methodology. It has been a joy to learn from him the last 5 years. He made the comfortable uncomfortable and the uncomfortable comfortable. He has been voted out, unconstitutionally, of his Pastoral post and is a true victim of hate crimes. Praise God! We currently meet every Sunday for a wonderful worship and Bible Study in the true invisible church.
>> Was John the Baptist socially inept and self important? <<
I’m not saying we all need to behave as John the Baptist, but since you bring it up: John retreated to the wilderness. His preaching inspired the crowds to come out to where he was. I’m warning against “shouting” (in the internet sense) and flaming as a means of forcing people to try to listen to you when they don’t want to.
>> What if some posters here have a calling from God. What if their job is to make people uncomfortable. I am currently involved with my spiritual mentor, who I must say, gets it when it comes to God’s methodology. It has been a joy to learn from him the last 5 years. He made the comfortable uncomfortable and the uncomfortable comfortable. He has been voted out, unconstitutionally, of his Pastoral post and is a true victim of hate crimes. Praise God! <<
If he has led the true believers of his flock out of a denomination which has forced gay marriage or similar abominations on the congregation, kudos to him. On the other hand, if his belligerence caused his congregation to oust him, he may be socially inept, and it has lost him much influence he may have had, and may have harmed gravely his causes. Being rejected by the crowds is confirmation of neither being correct or being wrong. Needlessly antagonizing the crowd is a sign of spiritual problems.
>> We currently meet every Sunday for a wonderful worship and Bible Study in the true invisible church. <<
The church is a sign. Signs aren’t invisible, even if they are forced underground by oppression.
Read the books. Lewis is a far more clever Christian apologist than you or I. And while the movies convey some of the grand, Christian themes, they certainly lose the subtler and more intricate ones.
Satan, or his spirit in his workers...just as the Spirit of Christ in His workers....post!
Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, Which teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight:
Proverbs 6:12-13 A naughty person, a wicked man, Walketh with a froward mouth. He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, He teacheth with his fingers;
When I say invisible church I was referring to a core group of true believers. We do welcome all who would like to join us. The invisible church has always been part of the visible church. Speaking of the visible church and it's institutions doesn't it appear more and more like a lifeless shell?
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