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Deathbed Request: 'Tell me About the Trinity’
Catholic Online ^ | 6/7/09 | Deacon Keith Fournier

Posted on 06/07/2009 4:20:54 AM PDT by tcg

It was June of 2005. I was at the bedside of a dear friend, a faithful and inspiring Catholic.

He was dying; just the night before he had received the news that he had less than two weeks to live. The cancer that he fought with such heroic courage had spread throughout his lymph glands. He was preparing for the passing to the Father with the dignity and beauty that authentic Catholic Christian faith can forge in a soul receptive to grace.

Jerry lived a full and fascinating life.

He was always a staunch and courageous defender of the Catholic faith. He reminded me of the great lay evangelist Frank Sheed - at least what I imagine Frank Sheed was like, since I never met him. My friend loved to tell anyone who would listen of the beauty and fullness of truth found in the Catholic Christian faith. In fact, he would engage any issue concerning that faith, with anyone, and at any time.

He especially delighted when Christians of other communities would come home to the full communion of the Catholic Church....

After the completion of the Viaticum Service, during a tender and profound moment of silence, Jerry turned to me, focused his piercing, peaceful, and intensely inquisitive eyes upon my own, and asked a question that was so unusual - and so profound- that I have dwelt upon it since.

I will carry it within me for many years to come.

“Tell me about the Trinity”, my friend asked me, “are they really happy?” ...

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; communion; cult; death; faith; trinity; trnity
'Tell me about the Trinity' Jerry asked me. He also brought me closer to the Dance of love that he has now joined.
1 posted on 06/07/2009 4:20:55 AM PDT by tcg
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To: tcg

“The Spirit of the supreme Logos is a kind of ineffable yet intense longing or ‘eros’ experienced by the Begetter for the Logos born ineffably from Him, a longing experienced also by the beloved Logos and Son of the Father for His Begetter; but the Logos possesses this love by virtue of the fact that it comes from the Father in the very act through which He comes from the Father, and it resides co-naturally in Him.

It is from the Logos’s discourse with us through His incarnation that we have learned what is the name of the Spirit’s distinct mode of coming to be from the Father and that the Spirit belongs not only to the Father but also to the Logos. For He says ‘the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father’ (John 15:26), so that we may know that from the Father comes not solely the Logos - who is begotten from the Father - but also the Spirit who proceeds from the Father. Yet the Spirit belongs also to the Son, who receives Him from the Father as the Spirit of Truth, Wisdom and Logos. For Truth and Wisdom constitute a Logos that befits His Begetter, a Logos that rejoices with the Father as the Father rejoices in Him.

This accords with the words that He spoke through Solomon:’I was She who rejoiced together with Him’ (Prov. 8:30). Solomon did not say simply ‘rejoiced’ but ‘rejoiced together with’. This pre-eternal rejoicing of the Father and the Son is the Holy Spirit who, as I said, is common to both, which explains why He is sent from both to those who are worthy. Yet the Spirit has His existence from the Father alone, and hence He proceeds as regards His existence only from the Father. Our intellect, because created in God’s image, possesses likewise the image of this sublime Eros or intense longing - an image expressed in the love experienced by the intellect for the spiritual knowledge that originates from it and continually abides in it.” +Gregory Palamas, Topics of Natural and Theological Science XXXVI (Its in vol IV of the Philokalia)


2 posted on 06/07/2009 4:51:50 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: tcg

His last 5 words were “tell me about the Trinity”? Lol. Thanx for the belly laugh.


3 posted on 06/07/2009 6:24:50 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: tcg
He especially delighted when Christians of other communities would come home to the full communion of the Catholic Church.

Just a question:
Does that make Protestants second class Christians in Catholic opinion ?

BTW, nice article.

4 posted on 06/07/2009 6:37:52 AM PDT by Popman (Joe Biden REALLY can't be Vice President, can he ?)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

You continue to live up to your pseudonym.


5 posted on 06/07/2009 6:55:26 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
You continue to live up to your pseudonym.

Sorry. I'm still laughing. The last words might have been "have mercy on me" or an some kind of expression of love. But no, "Please explain to me the doctine of the trinity". Double lol.

6 posted on 06/07/2009 8:02:59 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: tcg

“In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”


7 posted on 06/07/2009 8:28:16 AM PDT by Salvation ( With God all things are possible.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Hardly funny when someone is dying. Your sense of humor is ill-placed in my opinion.


8 posted on 06/07/2009 8:29:14 AM PDT by Salvation ( With God all things are possible.)
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To: tcg
Catholic Doctrine on the Holy Trinity
The Most Holy Trinity
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Trinity [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Holy Trinity (excerpt from the Light of Faith by St. Thomas Aquinas)

The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity - The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 3: God and the Holy Trinity
Sheed on the Trinity (Catholic Caucus)
The Father as the Source of the Whole Trinity - Greek and Latin Traditions About the Filioque
Trinity Facts

The Real Trinity
We believe in one only God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Brief Reflections on the Trinity, the Canon of Scripture, and the Protestant idea of Sola Scriptura
Why Do We Believe in the Trinity?
The Holy Trinity

Trinity Sunday (and the Trinity season)
Trinitarian Mystery
HaSheeloosh HaKadosh: The Holy Trinity
MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
The Divine Trinity

9 posted on 06/07/2009 8:30:09 AM PDT by Salvation ( With God all things are possible.)
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To: Popman

God will be the judge of all.


10 posted on 06/07/2009 8:32:59 AM PDT by Salvation ( With God all things are possible.)
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To: Salvation
God will be the judge of all.

Very true, but what does that have to do with whether or not Protestations are considered second class Christians by Catholics.

I sense on these Catholic thread a subtle condescending attitude toward non-Catholic Christians sort of like we are lost puppies gone astray.

I was wondering if anyone would comment

11 posted on 06/07/2009 8:44:02 AM PDT by Popman (Joe Biden REALLY can't be Vice President, can he ?)
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To: tcg

What is heaven like?

It is a place of total and complete love. It is an overwhelming sense of being part and participant of that Love. It is a storey above the Seven Storey Mountain (Thomas Merton), it is the interior castle beyond the Seventh Mansion (Teresa of Avila). It is a place where you know as you are known. It is a place where there are no regrets, where nothing matters except loving and worshiping God in all His Fullness, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Mystics have touched the hem of the garment of heaven. And occasionally those meditating deeply have also had that momentary glimpse of the perfecting work of the Holy Spirit, for a brief moment dancing the joyful dance of love, ‘perichoresis.’


12 posted on 06/07/2009 9:22:53 AM PDT by HighlyOpinionated (Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann in 2012. With Liz Cheney as Secretary of State.)
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To: HighlyOpinionated

Homecoming. The very best word I can say.


13 posted on 06/07/2009 11:35:22 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Live Long And Prosper!"-Mr. Spock:)=^..^==^..^==^..^==^..^=)
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To: Popman

“I sense on these Catholic thread a subtle condescending attitude toward non-Catholic Christians sort of like we are lost puppies gone astray.”

That’s because they do. According to them unless you’re a Catholic you’re not a Christian. That’s not what the Bible says.


14 posted on 06/07/2009 12:24:15 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo
That’s because they do. According to them unless you’re a Catholic you’re not a Christian. That’s not what the Bible says.

I think very few would be that bold and arrogant to say so plainly; I think most Catholics put their faith in the Church, her teaching and it's priestly hierarchy to be knowledgeable enough to argue from the the Scriptural standpoint believers must belong to the "Catholic" church to be saved.

BTW, I am a Protestant who greatly admires the Catholic Church for it's stand on sanctity of life, sin of homosexuality and many other cultural issues. They are a bulwark against secularism run a muck.

I wish I could say the same thing about our mainline Protestant denominations.

15 posted on 06/07/2009 12:59:57 PM PDT by Popman (Joe Biden REALLY can't be Vice President, can he ?)
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To: tcg
I had a dear friend that became terminally ill and her brother in law was a lay preacher that would sit by her bed and read scripture and talk about Jesus...One day he asked her if she was really ready to die and she answered “I want what Jesus wants” death bed conversions happen all the time and it is amazing...All the years I knew her and we travels together (as both our husbands had died) she never even mentioned religion of any kind..Her husband converted to Catholic about 8 years before his death..I was honored that he asked me to sponsor him at the ceremony and I had to refuse as I had not been a practicing Catholic for decades and explained to him why he should get a friend from his church to sponsor him.....2 great people and dear friends..
16 posted on 06/07/2009 1:03:19 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Salvation
Hardly funny when someone is dying. Your sense of humor is ill-placed in my opinion.

So was the request to hear about the doctrine of the trinity. lol.

17 posted on 06/07/2009 1:24:37 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: swmobuffalo

Which came first the Bible or the Church?

It was St. Jerome who translated the Bible from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek into Latin and then was passed on through the ages through the Catholic Church.

You might say, “Thanks for your “KJV” — even though Luther corrupted the text by adding words and taking out words as well as books. Hence many do not know the entire truth.

I’m not trying to criticize — just pointing out the truths of how the Bible got where it is today.


18 posted on 06/07/2009 1:48:47 PM PDT by Salvation († With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Popman

I am not saying that Catholics are better than Christians, I shook my head in dismay as I watched the car of a fellow parishioner leave the parking lot this morning with an “Obama-Biden” sticker.

I am merely saying that through our words and actions, God will judge each one of us individually. Having voted pro-life in the last election — I do not expect to have God judge me in the same way He might judge the Catholic leaving our lot this morning who obviously voted for Obortion Obama.


19 posted on 06/07/2009 1:51:58 PM PDT by Salvation († With God all things are possible.†)
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To: A.A. Cunningham; Invincibly Ignorant

“It was June of 2005. I was at the bedside of a dear friend, a faithful and inspiring Catholic.

He was dying; just the night before he had received the news that he had less than two weeks to live.”

Hey, ignorant, he who laughs first laughs last. Heh


20 posted on 06/07/2009 2:48:38 PM PDT by bronxville
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To: bronxville
“It was June of 2005. I was at the bedside of a dear friend, a faithful and inspiring Catholic. He was dying; just the night before he had received the news that he had less than two weeks to live.”

I too was at the bedside of a faithful and inspiring Catholic. He had two days to live. He inquired of me during those two days and I explained to him Apostolic Succession, Perpetual Virginity, Communion of the Saints, Transubstaniation, what happens at Lourdes and mother Cabrini shrine, and purgatory. I now am confident he is teaching Catechism somewhere in heaven. Talk amongst yourselves I'm overklempt. :-)

21 posted on 06/07/2009 3:08:01 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

“His last 5 words were “tell me about the Trinity”? Lol. Thanx for the belly laugh.”

FYI - The article stated - “He was dying; just the night before he had received the news that he had less than two weeks to live.” therefore his last words weren’t “tell me about the Trinity” - that’s all.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post as I see you do really care about people.


22 posted on 06/07/2009 4:00:36 PM PDT by bronxville
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To: Salvation

Luther wrote in English? I thought he was German. Doesn’t the KJV use EURASMUS’ Greek text?


23 posted on 06/07/2009 4:28:22 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (A modern liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do so long as it is compulsory.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

If I’m not mistaken the Bible was translated into German by St. Boniface, a Bishop who was later martyred.

I’ll check on this because there were two German missionary saints last week and get back to you.


24 posted on 06/07/2009 6:03:49 PM PDT by Salvation († With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

“just pointing out the truths of how the Bible got where it is today.”

Uh huh. Heard that one before, don’t buy into it.

And as for the church, the scriptures were around before the church came to be. The Catholic Church bears no resemblance to the early church. The “extras” didn’t appear in the early church.

The New Testament scriptures aren’t any more corrupt than the Old Testament scriptures. Examination of the earliest autographs with the best of the translations back that up.


25 posted on 06/07/2009 6:14:42 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo
There are NO Catholics that don't think OTHER BAPTIZED CHRISTIANS aren't CHRISTIAN!! Who ever told you such nonsense is a liar. Anyone baptized into the CHRISTIAN CHURCH is a CHRISTIAN!

Geesh....I have heard with my own ears, Baptists telling me that I am NOT a Christian because I'm a Catholic....they said it's a CULT! Double geesh. STUPID PEOPLE.

26 posted on 06/07/2009 6:27:51 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
St. Boniface used his Bible as a shield against some pagans in Germany. He is often pictured with a Bible with a sword in it.

My priest must have mentioned the little tidbit about St. Boniface translating the Bible into German. I believe he was in Germany in the 700s. I'll keep checking.

27 posted on 06/07/2009 6:29:52 PM PDT by Salvation († With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Ann Archy

Ummm, that’s not the stance of the Catholic church if I recall.


28 posted on 06/07/2009 7:00:49 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: Popman
I sense on these Catholic thread a subtle condescending attitude toward non-Catholic Christians sort of like we are lost puppies gone astray.

The Catholic Church recognizes all Christians as Brothers and Sisters in Christ -- a favor, I should add, that is often not returned. Many non-Catholic Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christian.

However, Catholics hold that the Catholic Church is in the Fullness of Truth, because Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide his Church -- the 2000 year-old Catholic Church -- through the Apostolic succession, which are the Popes and the Magesterium of the Church, which protects, preserves and teaches the Deposit of Faith. And of special importance is participation in the Sacraments, such as the Eucharist and Confession, which provide extraordinary grace that is not available to non-Catholic Christians.

To put it another way, only the Catholic Church has the institutional authority to teach Scripture and Theological Truth with the full protection of the Holy Spirit. This is why Protestant sects continue to spread and splinter, because they have no authority to which to appeal when there are disputes over Scripture.

For a good read, I recommend David B. Currie's Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic. That's especially true if your background is Evangelical.

God bless.
29 posted on 06/08/2009 8:25:39 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: swmobuffalo
That’s because they do. According to them unless you’re a Catholic you’re not a Christian. That’s not what the Bible says.

That's not true. Catholics hold that all Christians are Brothers and Sisters in Christ. However, the Catholic Church holds that only the Church has the protection of the Holy Spirit to teach, protect, and preserve the Deposit of Faith in Scripture and Tradition. It rejects Sola Scriptura, which is an assumption of almost all Protestantism.
30 posted on 06/08/2009 8:35:41 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: swmobuffalo
And as for the church, the scriptures were around before the church came to be. The Catholic Church bears no resemblance to the early church.

I think you are quite mistaken on both of these points.

First, Biblical scholars -- both Catholic and Protestant -- tell us that the last book of the New Testament was not written until the end of the 1st century A.D., that is, until around the year 100 A.D. This fact would leave roughly a 65-year gap between Our Lord's Ascension into Heaven and the completion of the Bible as we know it. The question that begs to be asked, therefore, is this: "Who or what served as the final infallible authority during that time?"

If the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then since the Church existed for a time without the entire written Word of God, there would have been situations and doctrinal issues which could not have been resolved with finality until all of the New Testament books were complete. The ship would have been left without a rudder, so to speak, at least for a time. But this goes contrary to the statement and promises that Our Lord made about His Church--particularly, "behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the wqorld" (Matt. 28:20)--not to mention that He told his disciples: "I will not leave you orphans." (John 14:18).

This issue is of particular importance, as the first several decades of the Church's existence were tumultuous. Presecutions had already begun, believers were martyred, the new Faith was struggling to grow, and some false teachings had already appeared (cf. Galatians 1:6-9). If the Bible were the Christian's only rule of faith, and since the Bible was not fully written--much less settled in terms of its canon--until 65 years after Christ's Ascension, how did the early Church possibly deal with doctrinal questions without an authority on how to proceed? Of course they had an authority and a Church -- and it perfectly resembled the Catholic Church of today, both in terms of its worshop through the Mass and in terms of its hierarchical structure.

One need only look to the early Church Fathers to see that they held all of the central tenets of the Catholic faith and none of the Protestant heresies -- including and most especially the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
31 posted on 06/08/2009 8:51:08 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bronxville
Sorry if I misunderstood your post as I see you do really care about people.

Uh oh. I detect sarcasm. Sure sign of an angry person.

32 posted on 06/08/2009 4:33:36 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: bronxville
Sorry if I misunderstood your post as I see you do really care about people.

Uh oh. I detect sarcasm. Sure sign of an angry person. Last words? Deathbed request? Don't see much diff Homer.

33 posted on 06/08/2009 4:34:37 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: bdeaner

“and it perfectly resembled the Catholic Church of today, both in terms of its worshop through the Mass and in terms of its hierarchical structure.”

Bull. Pure bull. Period.


34 posted on 06/08/2009 5:26:00 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo
Bull. Pure bull. Period.

Well that was an intelligent answer. /sarcasm

If you are going to make a claim, better be ready to back it up. I am guessing you cannot. In fact, I am sure you cannot.
35 posted on 06/08/2009 5:37:17 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: Ann Archy

God bless YOU! We as the body of Christ that being all Christians,should try very hard to unite because we have many enemies and I believe the government is now one of those enemies. We stand together in the name of Jesus!


36 posted on 06/09/2009 7:50:30 PM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: red irish; Ann Archy; tcg; Popman; bdeaner; Invincibly Ignorant; bronxville






"TELL ME ABOUT THE TRINITY!!!!"


There were too many characters in this skit. I found it hard to keep track of who was whom.

(When you leave a transcript behind, the Broadway critics come in months later and tell you that you should have made it a musical ...)
37 posted on 09/20/2009 12:07:24 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT ("pray without ceasing")
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