Posted on 06/21/2009 3:05:45 PM PDT by Salvation
People: And with your spirit. (Et cum spiritu tuo)
Any other thoughts out there?
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In the Source link and the name of the site, my fingers seem to be hitting an E rather than a U
Could you please change both to USCCB?
Thanks.
Just bring back the Latin and you won’t have to worry about the official translations.
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“Y con tu espiritu!”
You wrote:
“Just bring back the Latin and you won’t have to worry about the official translations.”
BINGO!!!
Which means that once you get back to the Latin of the Late Middle Ages, you need to go to the Latin of the Early Middle Ages, and then the Latin of the Late Roman Period ~ or maybe the Middle Byzantine Period ~ or maybe even to Modern, Medieval, Byzantine, or possibly even Classical Greek (depending on phrase or clause at dispute, and when it originated, and which authorities of which rank and reputation ever commented on it).
In general it's usually more efficient to simply come up with a more modern statement than to try to figure out what a writer/source/authority meant more than a thousand years back.
There are people who despise modernism but that's a whole 'nuther question.
With several years of Latin under my belt and a thorough grounding in Spanish, French, German, Italian and several other languages, I couldn't quite figure out what the translating authority had done by simply leaving the spiritu part out. Left me feeling I must have missed class one time too many or something.
Michael K. Magee, The Liturgical Translation of the Response “Et cum spiritu tuo”: Communio 29 (Spring 2002) 152-171.
W.C. Van Unnik, “Dominus Vobiscum:” The Background of a Liturgical Formula: A.J.B. Higgins (ed.), New Testament Essays (Manchester, University Press, 1959) 270-305.
19 and 35 page articles on something as simple as “The Lord be with you,” and its response! Liturgical scholars can be very thorough. ICEL translators? Not so much.
I’ve been attending a traditional Latin Mass near my house, so there is no translation problem.
"Καὶ τῷ πνεύματί σου".
This is usually preceeded by "Εἰρήνη πᾶσι" meaning "Peace be with you. It is also used in response to:
" Ἡ χάρις τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ Πατρὸς καὶ ἡ κοινωνία τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος εἴη μετὰ πάντων ὑμῶν.", "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the Father and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you."
and
"Καὶ ἔσται τὰ ἐλέη τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ καὶ Σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ μετὰ πάντων ἡμῶν." "The mercy of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ be with all of us."
No way we'd say "And also with you"! Its good to see Rome requiring the American Church to toe the line.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
**”The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the Father and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.”**
That is beautiful.
ping
“That is beautiful.”
Indeed it is, chanted out over the People of God. It was especially beautiful today. Our Metropolitan visited so we had a concelebrated hierarchial liturgy which is really speacial and impressive. The Met. prayed specially for our troops in Afganistan and Iraq and then prayed for “The non Chrisitian, Mohammedan people of Iran who are fearlessly asserting their right to that Freedom which is the birthright of all children of God.”
It is exciting, but I am trying not to get my hopes up. Will all of the bishops have to agree to it? When will it be implemented? My priest is the more progressive type and has even said that he is not interested in learning Latin.
Perhaps they won’t agree and that would be OK with me, because it will get approved by the Vatican for all English speaking countries at that point and the bishops here won’t have anything to say about it. LOl!
Interesting point: When a bishop presides at Mass, one of the "Dominus vobiscum"'s is changed to "Pax vobis".
That is beautiful.
That is the opening Greeting of the Eucharistic liturgy of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; first introduced in the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship and continued in the 2007 Evangelical Luthean Worship.
I wholeheartedly agree.
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