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Summorum Pontificum and reunion with the Eastern Orthodox
SummorumPontificum.net ^ | 9/23/09 | Brian Kopp

Posted on 09/23/2009 5:18:33 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Summorum Pontificum and reunion with the Eastern Orthodox

By Brian Kopp

A tantalizing headline is making its rounds in Catholic news circles: Is Catholic-Orthodox Unity in Sight?

In his Inside the Vatican Newsflash Letter #29 today, Dr. Robert Moynihan examines the implications of recent meetings between Rome and a representative of the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow:

A fourth consideration is the relationship of the Roman Catholic Church to the world's Orthodox Churches.

It became clear last week, during a very cordial visit to Rome by a representative of the Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow, that relations between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, especially Russian Orthodoxy, at least on the surface, are much improved over the past few years.

Here are excerpts from an account of that visit I wrote for the Monday, September 21 edition of the Zenit news agency:
Recent Meeting Could Mark Turning Point

.On September 18, inside Castel Gandolfo, the Pope's summer palace about 30 miles outside Rome, a Russian Orthodox Archbishop named Hilarion Alfeyev (photo), 43 (a scholar, theologian, expert on the liturgy, composer and lover of music), met with Benedict XVI, 82 (also a scholar, theologian, expert on the liturgy and lover of music), for almost two hours, according to informed sources. (There are as yet no "official" sources about this meeting -- the Holy See has still not released an official communiqué.)

The silence suggests that what transpired was important -- perhaps so important that the Holy See thinks it isn't yet prudent to reveal publicly what was discussed.

But there are numerous "signs" that the meeting was remarkably harmonious...

In memory of the visit, Archbishop Hilarion gave the Pope a pectoral cross, made in workshops of Russian Orthodox Church...

It is especially significant, in this context, that Hilarion, Patriarch Kirill's "Foreign Minister," has some of the same deep interests as Benedict XVI: the liturgy, and music.

"As a 15-year-old boy I first entered the sanctuary of the Lord, the Holy of Holies of the Orthodox Church,” Hilarion once wrote about the Orthodox liturgy. “But it was only after my entrance into the altar that the 'theourgia,' the mystery, and 'feast of faith' began, which continues to this very day.

"After my ordination, I saw my destiny and main calling in serving the Divine Liturgy. Indeed, everything else, such as sermons, pastoral care and theological scholarship were centered around the main focal point of my life -- the liturgy."

These words seem to echo the feelings and experiences of Benedict XVI, who has written that the liturgies of Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday in Bavaria when he was a child were formative for his entire being, and that his writing on the liturgy (one of his books is entitled "Feast of Faith") is the most important to him of all his scholarly endeavors.

"Orthodox divine services are a priceless treasure that we must carefully guard," Hilarion has written. "I have had the opportunity to be present at both Protestant and Catholic services, which were, with rare exceptions, quite disappointing… Since the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council, services in some Catholic churches have become little different from Protestant ones."

Again, these words of Hilarion seem to echo Benedict XVI's own concerns. The Pope has made it clear that he wishes to reform the Catholic Church's liturgy, and preserve what was contained in the old liturgy and now risks being lost.

Hilarion has cited the Orthodox St. John of Kronstadt approvingly. St. John of Kronstadt wrote: "The Church and its divine services are an embodiment and realization of everything in Christianity... It is the divine wisdom, accessible to simple, loving hearts."

These words echo words written by Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI, who often said that the liturgy is a "school" for the simple Christian, imparting the deep truths of the faith even to the unlearned through its prayers, gestures and hymns.

Hilarion in recent years has become known for his musical compositions, especially for Christmas and for Good Friday, celebrating the birth and the Passion of Jesus Christ. These works have been performed in Moscow and in the West, in Rome in March 2007 and in Washington DC in December 2007.

Closer relations between Rome and Moscow, then, could have profound implications also for the cultural and liturgical life of the Church in the West. There could be a renewal of Christian art and culture, as well as of faith...

(Here is a link to the complete article: http://www.zenit.org/article-26932?l=english.)



At a superficial level, there would seem to be no relation between Vatican efforts at fostering closer unity with the Eastern Orthodox, and the subject of the rest of the Inside the Vatican Newsflash Letter #29, i.e., the impending "Perfect Storm" regarding negotiations between the Vatican and the SSPX.

However, this would be an opportune moment to review a column published more than a year ahead of Summorum Pontificum:

June 29, 2006
Archbishop Burke, Bishop Rifan comment: Will classical liturgy aid reunion with Eastern Orthodox?

By Brian Mershon

"Similarly, it must not be forgotten that from the beginning the Churches of the East have had a treasury from which the Western Church has drawn extensively in liturgical practice, spiritual tradition, and law"
Unitatis Redintegratio, November 21, 1964.

Is it truly feasible that the "freeing of the classical Roman rite of liturgy" is a small part of the Pope's overall plan for paving the way for the reuniting of the Latin Church with the separated Churches of the East?

Bishop Fernando Rifan, who heads up the Apostolic Administration of St. John Mary Vianney in Campos, Brazil, said he believed a further liberalization of the liturgical rite of Pope St. Pius V would aid ecumenical relations with the East.

"I really think that the Traditional Latin Mass widely and freely available would be, among many other good reasons, a great benefit in the field of the true ecumenism with the Orthodox," he said. "This would be primarily because the Traditional Liturgy is much more similar to the Oriental [Eastern] rites in the aspect of the sacred, veneration, and beauty."

Bishop Rifan and his priestly society achieved full canonical recognition and regularization with the Church on January 18, 2002.

It is hoped by many traditionalists and the Holy See that the positive example of this group of priests, which offers all the sacraments exclusively according to the ancient rites, will serve as a model for other traditionalist priestly societies such as the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), to potentially reach full regularization with the Church.

Archbishop Raymond Burke, a notably obedient son of the Church, particularly with applying Pope John Paul II's request in Ecclesia Dei Adflicta to be "wide and generous" in allowing the Classical Roman liturgy for those Catholics who desire it, agrees with Bishop Rifan's assessment, but with a nuance.

"I wouldn't think that the Holy Father would be doing this simply as a strategy [for ecumenical relations with the Orthodox], but I do think it will be an effect of a restoration or in the 'reform of the reform' of the liturgy," Archbishop Burke said.

"It seems to me for the Eastern rites, and for those of the Orthodox Churches, the reform of the liturgy after the council and the concrete expression is so stripped of the transcendent, of the sacral elements, it is difficult for them to recognize its relationship with their Eucharistic Liturgies," he said.

Archbishop Burke agreed that the Eastern Churches would most likely identify more readily with the Classical Roman rite of liturgy, and its similarities with their own Divine Liturgies, than the Novus Ordo liturgy.

"It would be easier for them to see the unity, the oneness in the Eucharistic Sacrifice, by a rite of the Mass, just limiting ourselves now to talking about the Holy Mass, that it was richer in those dimensions — the elements of the transcendent — the symbols of the transcendent element of Christ — Christ in action in the Mass — the unbloody renewal of the Sacrifice of Calvary," Archbishop Burke said.

Not A Hopeful Indicator

Dr. Alcuin Reid, author of numerous scholarly books on the Sacred Liturgy and its history, is the recent author of Organic Development of the Liturgy, which contains glowing praise in its preface written by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. He affirmed that it was his opinion as a liturgical scholar, that the Novus Ordo liturgy, as practiced in the vast majority of Catholic churches, is not a hopeful indicator of eventual reunion with the East.

"I suspect that our current liturgical state does not exactly inspire confidence in them," Dr. Reid said. "The Holy Father is, no doubt, aware of this, and most probably hopes to give a sign that Rome wishes to set her liturgy in order once again, and that indeed Rome respects legitimate traditional liturgical rites."

Fr. Richard Jano is the pastor at Nativity Ukrainian Catholic Church in Springfield, Ore., an Eastern rite Catholic Church in full communion with the Holy See. As an Eastern rite priest, he has occasionally offered the Novus Ordo liturgy for area churches over the past 25 years, and he agrees with Dr. Reid's assessment.

"I think there would be some value in doing this [freeing the Classical Roman rite] as an indication of the respect the Church holds for liturgical worship that comes down to us from ancient times, and emphasizes the awe, reverence, and respectfully loving attitude that a Christian should carry into the Sacred Liturgy," he said.

"It would also illustrate the truth that the Church honors the genuine and authentic diversity of liturgies, not only in the Eastern Churches, both Catholic and Orthodox, but even within the Roman Church itself," Fr. Jano said.

...

Perhaps the better question is: "What is the common basis of doctrinal and moral issues for dialogue with increasingly more estranged, and increasingly less Christian sects with no valid priesthood?"

Pope Benedict XVI, able to tell "the tree by its fruits," clearly recognizes the advantage of having more than 500 priests in the SSPX in full communion. He also recognizes the accelerating number of priestly vocations produced in other traditionalist communities like the FSSP and the ICKSP. The current Pope's brand of "ecumenism" is one of Christian charity and justice, and perhaps recognizing "the signs of the times" called for so often in the documents of the Second Vatican Council and its aftermath by progressives.

He also understands that a united Church, East and West, may possibly be able to save Christianity in Europe and aid in re-establishing a more Christian worldview.

How does a gesture such as freeing the Classical Roman rite of liturgy fit into prospective ecumenical relations with the Orthodox, which was the primary group emphasized in the Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism, Unitatis Redintegratio?

If the Church has abandoned (or even given the appearance of abandoning in many quarters) its own liturgical patrimony and traditional devotional traditions, how can it hope to achieve any measurable ecumenical gains with the Churches of the East?

...

Cheevers said that Orthodox liturgists have always tended to cringe at the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms of the Latin Church. "Organic development in liturgy is permissible. Radical invention is not."

"The Pauline liturgy implicitly seems to move away from the clear expressions of faith about the sacramental nature of the Divine Liturgy commonly understood in the undivided church of the first millennium."

Cheevers said that a restoration of the Classical Roman rite, or so-called Tridentine rite, in the Catholic Church would probably be helpful to fostering ecumenism with the Orthodox. "It's something that Orthodox can look at and say 'we recognize this.'"

...

One of the recurring themes of Pope Benedict's writings on the recovery of the sacred in the liturgy is the positioning of the priest "toward the East" or "toward God." As an Eastern rite priest who offers all Divine Liturgies toward the East, leading his flock in worship to the heavenly Father, Fr. Jano voiced his impressions on his offering Mass "toward the people" when occasionally offering the Novus Ordo.

"On the few occasions when I have served the Mass in Roman Catholic parishes, I have been very surprised to discover how uncomfortable I am with praying to God while facing the congregation," he said. "Probably the most jarring example for me, to illustrate this point, is when I have seen Roman priests reading a prayer at Mass and gazing intently at the congregation while uttering the prayer. I've never understood this," Fr. Jano said.

"If you have something important to say to your Father, why would you stare at your brother when you're speaking to Him?"

Salutary Effects

Fr. Thomas Kocik of Somerset, Mass., and author of Ignatius Press' Reform of the Reform?, agreed that the reformed Novus Ordo liturgy is not an ecumenical breakthrough with the Orthodox.

"The Orthodox are justly disturbed not only by abuses in the post-Vatican II liturgy, but also by approved practices such as female altar servers, Mass 'facing the people' and Communion in the hand," he said. "Given the East's intense conservatism, I think the freeing of the Tridentine liturgy bodes well ecumenically, because these problematic practices are simply not standard features of the Classical Roman rite."

"The Orthodox may interpret this as evidence of a renewed seriousness in the Roman Church about the ancient maxim, 'lex orandi, lex credendi,' meaning that as we believe so we pray, and vice versa," he said. "Doctrine and worship influence each other."

...

© Brian Mershon


(A counterpoint to the thesis that Summorum Pontificum may have represented, at least in part, an ecumenical gesture towards the Eastern Orthodox can be found in an 11/14/2006 Vivificat blog post, The prospects of the Tridentine Mass in the light of the impending new indult.)

The developments in Vatican relations with both the SSPX and the Eastern Orthodox may best be understood neither through a "Hermeneutic of Continuity" nor a "Hermeneutic of Rupture," but through a Hermeneutic of Fatima:


If you were the pope, in the twilight of your career, a true son of VII, yet you could see the severe problems that have wracked the Church since VII, what would you do? If you had a deep seated fear that the Church would continue its moral decline if nothing is done, what would you do? If you truly believed the actions of the Vatican regarding Fatima were, at the time, honest and forthright, but now you had a real doubt that all was not as it seemed then, what would you do?

You would look at the most important aspects of the Message of Fatima that may not have been addressed, and you would systematically work to undo the damage.

1) Restore the TLM.

2) Propose a reconsideration and reinterpretation of VII.

3) Figure out a way to bring Russia back into the fold.

How?

1) Summorum Pontificum

2) Lift the SSPX excommunications, and task them with addressing the problems of VII. Put them directly in contact with the CDF. Let the tail (the SSPX) wag the dog (CDF.) Then let the CDF wag the Church.

3) Make real moves towards reuniting Eastern Orthodoxy, and use the Grace of that unity to fight the errors of post-Christian western decay.


This may be the interpretive key to truly understanding the "Marshall Plan" of Pope Benedict XVI.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Orthodox Christian; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; hilarion; pope; roc; rorc
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1 posted on 09/23/2009 5:18:34 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Howya, man of many names ...


2 posted on 09/23/2009 7:46:33 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not a princess, this ain't a fairy tale.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
"If you have something important to say to your Father, why would you stare at your brother when you're speaking to Him?"

That is indeed the fulcrum on which the prospects for reunification turn. Note that much in the liturgical reform of Vatican II is of no concern to the Orthodox, who in any event will keep their own rite, but the orientaton (or is it occidentation?) of the priest is, unfortunately, a clear sign of disunion.

3 posted on 09/23/2009 9:01:05 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex

Seems like a petty disagreement to me, not big enough to separate God’s family for so long. I used to go to liturgy committee meetings when I was a church musician, in high school and college. One reason I never became a full-time professional was that I couldn’t stand bickering over what was going to be done, in what way, and when, when there were much bigger fish to fry— like saving souls.


4 posted on 09/23/2009 9:31:29 PM PDT by married21
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To: married21

This is not petty, as the position of the priest projects a particular understanding of his role. Note that the Orthodox do not attempt to dictate to the West elements of the Latin liturgy at all: the use of a particular language, the text of the prayers, the manner of preparing and receiving the Eucharist, how to do the sign of the cross, etc., even though on all these things our rites differ.


5 posted on 09/23/2009 9:52:45 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
There are some good points in this and some things are important (ad orientem for example), but it would be a gross oversimplification and overreaction to call this anywhere near a reunion. As far as I know, the real obstacle, if not a stumbling stone, is the jurisdicitonal role of the pope.

Once that is overcome (and this will require compromise or redefinition, or both), there is the issue of the next Ecumenical Council being summoned by the pope and the impossible attempt of mending and reconciling the theological rift.

The Church will not be united until both "lungs" profess the same faith, which means all theological issues must be resolved, prior to reunification.

6 posted on 09/24/2009 12:10:59 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; jrny
Cheevers said that Orthodox liturgists have always tended to cringe at the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms of the Latin Church. "Organic development in liturgy is permissible. Radical invention is not."

Yes yes and yes!!!

Although I might add that the implications of this eminently sensible position extend farther than some traditionalists may be willing to go. Alcuin Reid, mentioned above, makes a point about the reform of the Breviary by St. Pius X....it really was a gutting and recasting of the old Roman Divine Office. If I remember right, Reid says that autocratic move by the Pope and the timid resistance to it among religious helped lay the philosophical groundwork for the Novus Ordo 60 years later.

Whaddya think jrny? I know you have some wisdom on all this!

7 posted on 09/24/2009 5:46:31 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ...

For those interested in following these developments.


8 posted on 09/24/2009 5:56:31 AM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

9 posted on 09/24/2009 5:57:37 AM PDT by narses
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Great to see you back Brian, you have been missed around here!


10 posted on 09/24/2009 6:24:42 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: kosta50

Your are correct, it is premature to express such jubilation.

On the other hand, whn two people are in love, they normally end up together despite often significant odds. When two people merely share interests, the prospect for their partnership is still remote.

The renewed atmosphere in East-West relationship suggests that maybe, hopefully, the two Churches are falling in love again, not merely decide to co-operate. So it is big news.

Watch the reunion with SSPX. If it is implemented in full in this pontificate, the road to the East-West reunification will be much clearer.


11 posted on 09/24/2009 7:36:25 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Claud
Dom Alcuin Reid’s book The Organic Development of the Liturgy now has, as a preface, Ratzinger’s book review, from which I quote:

At the end of his book, the author enumerates some principles for proper reform: this should keep being open to development, and continuity with the Tradition, in a proper balance; it includes awareness of an objective liturgical tradition, and therefore takes care to ensure a substantial continuity. The author then agrees with the Catechism of the Catholic Church in emphasizing that “even the supreme authority in the Church may not change the Liturgy arbitrarily, but only in the obedience of faith and with religious respect for the mystery of the Liturgy”. (CCC No. 1125, p. 258) As subsidiary criteria we then encounter the legitimacy of local traditions and the concern for pastoral effectiveness.

Criteria for Liturgical Renewal

From my own personal point of view I should like to give further particular emphasis to some of the criteria for liturgical renewal thus briefly indicated. I will begin with those last two main criteria.

It seems to me most important that the Catechism, in mentioning the limitation of the powers of the supreme authority in the Church with regard to reform, recalls to mind what is the essence of the primacy as outlined by the First and Second Vatican Councils: The pope is not an absolute monarch whose will is law, but is the guardian of the authentic Tradition, and thereby the premier guarantor of obedience. He cannot do as he likes, and is thereby able to oppose those people who for their part want to do what has come into their head. His rule is not that of arbitrary power, but that of obedience in faith. That is why, with respect to the Liturgy, he has the task of a gardener, not that of a technician who builds new machines and throws the old ones on the junk-pile. The “rite”, that form of celebration and prayer which has ripened in the faith and the life of the Church, is a condensed form of living tradition in which the sphere which uses that rite expresses the whole of its faith and its prayer, and thus at the same time the fellowship of generations one with another becomes something we can experience, fellowship with the people who pray before us and after us. Thus the rite is something of benefit which is given to the Church, a living form of paradosis — the handing-on of tradition.

It is important, in this connection, to interpret the “substantial continuity” correctly. The author expressly warns us against the wrong path up which we might be led by a neo-scholastic sacramental theology which is disconnected from the living form of the Liturgy. On that basis, people might reduce the “substance” to the material and form of the sacrament, and say: Bread and wine are the material of the sacrament, the words of institution are its form. Only these two things are really necessary, everything else is changeable.

At this point Modernists and Traditionalists are in agreement: As long as the material gifts are there, and the words of institution are spoken, then everything else is freely disposable. Many priests today, unfortunately, act in accordance with this motto; and the theories of many liturgists are unfortunately moving in the same direction. They want to overcome the limits of the rite, as being something fixed and immovable, and construct the products of their fantasy, which are supposedly “pastoral”, around this remnant, this core which has been spared, and which is thus either relegated to the realm of magic, or loses any meaning whatever. The Liturgical Movement had in fact been attempting to overcome this reductionism, the product of an abstract sacramental theology, and to teach us to understand the Liturgy as a living network of tradition which had taken concrete form, which cannot be torn apart into little pieces, but has to be seen and experienced as a living whole. Anyone like myself, who was moved by this perception in the time of the Liturgical Movement on the eve of the Second Vatican Council, can only stand, deeply sorrowing, before the ruins of the very things they were concerned for.

12 posted on 09/24/2009 8:17:39 AM PDT by tgdunbar
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To: annalex
On the other hand, whn two people are in love, they normally end up together despite often significant odds

And sometimes the two people who are in love are so incompatible they are better off being separate because otherwise they will cause each other's ruin.

Although Pope Benedict XVI said any reunion must be without morphing or absorbing, the truth is that the Orthodox see the reunion possible when the Catholics become Orthodox again, and the Catholics imagine the Orthodox becoming like the uniate Eastern Catholics. Fat chance.

Just as the Orthodox Church is defined by the first millennium, the Catholic Church is defined by the second millennium, which are night and day.

Theologically, any reunion at this point would require one side giving up part of its belief and that is just not very likely, just as the Council of Florence discovered.

13 posted on 09/24/2009 8:22:56 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Coincidence?

Pope to visit Fatima next year?
September 24, 2009

Government officials in Portugal report that Pope Benedict XVI plans to visit the shrine of Our Lady of Fatima next year. The report indicates that the Pope will make the trip in May, to preside at celebrations for the feast of Our Lady of Fatima, May 13. The Vatican-- which ordinarily does not confirm a papal trip until a few weeks before it takes place-- has not commented on the reports.

Pope John Paul II traveled to Fatima on three occasions during his pontificate, making his final trip in 2000 to preside at the beatification of Blessed Jacinta and Franscisco Marto, two of the three children to whom the Blessed Virgin appeared there. (The third Fatima seer, Sister Lucia Santos, died in 2005; a cause for her beatification was opened in 2008, after Pope Benedict waived the rule requiring a 5-year waiting period.) Pope John Paul had a special devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, crediting her with saving his life when he was shot in St. Peter's Square on her feast day: May 13, 1981.

Source(s): these links will take you to other sites, in a new window.


14 posted on 09/24/2009 3:26:43 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Good to see you doc.


15 posted on 09/24/2009 6:24:22 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: kosta50

I think, the Orthodox Church is primarily defined by the Muslim and Communist oppression, but a time will come when she heals.


16 posted on 09/24/2009 6:33:41 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: redgolum; wagglebee

Good to be back, thanks!


17 posted on 09/24/2009 6:55:49 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: annalex
I think, the Orthodox Church is primarily defined by the Muslim and Communist oppression, but a time will come when she heals

I disagree wiht that, Alex. I don't think the EOC is sick at all. It shows remarkable health and resilieance, despite centuries-long oppresions. The Orthodox Church is the immunized first millenium Church in the liturgical sense and otherwise. Very transcendental relative to the world.

18 posted on 09/24/2009 9:20:22 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50

I did not mean to imply that the West is free from its own sicknesses, but in viewing how the East is approaching the prospect of reunion, I see fear and chest-thumping, and very little love. Exceptions are few, and when they happen, they are heartening. May they happen more often.


19 posted on 09/25/2009 7:24:23 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
The fear comes from seeing what the Catholic Church did less then 50 years ago at the Vatican II. It also has to do with the Vatican I's insane papal infallibility dogma. Those two events pretty much doubled the gap that existed prior to that and threw the reunion key into the River Tiber.

The Orthodox look at the Catholic liturgy, the pantsuit nuns, the alter girls, the barren Protestant-like churches and say "What?" Then we read that there are forces (not small) in the current Latin Church that absolutely hate +BXVI and want the Traditional Latin Mass permanently banned.

Why would the Orthodox want a reunion with such a Church? It only serves to prove to them that the Schism was not about the East leaving the West but the other way around.

If there were genuine, rather thaaforced attempts to return Catholicism to its Patristic roots, there would be very little chest-thumping and fear among the Orthodox.

20 posted on 09/25/2009 9:34:32 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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