Posted on 09/23/2009 5:18:33 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
Howya, man of many names ...
That is indeed the fulcrum on which the prospects for reunification turn. Note that much in the liturgical reform of Vatican II is of no concern to the Orthodox, who in any event will keep their own rite, but the orientaton (or is it occidentation?) of the priest is, unfortunately, a clear sign of disunion.
Seems like a petty disagreement to me, not big enough to separate God’s family for so long. I used to go to liturgy committee meetings when I was a church musician, in high school and college. One reason I never became a full-time professional was that I couldn’t stand bickering over what was going to be done, in what way, and when, when there were much bigger fish to fry— like saving souls.
This is not petty, as the position of the priest projects a particular understanding of his role. Note that the Orthodox do not attempt to dictate to the West elements of the Latin liturgy at all: the use of a particular language, the text of the prayers, the manner of preparing and receiving the Eucharist, how to do the sign of the cross, etc., even though on all these things our rites differ.
Once that is overcome (and this will require compromise or redefinition, or both), there is the issue of the next Ecumenical Council being summoned by the pope and the impossible attempt of mending and reconciling the theological rift.
The Church will not be united until both "lungs" profess the same faith, which means all theological issues must be resolved, prior to reunification.
Yes yes and yes!!!
Although I might add that the implications of this eminently sensible position extend farther than some traditionalists may be willing to go. Alcuin Reid, mentioned above, makes a point about the reform of the Breviary by St. Pius X....it really was a gutting and recasting of the old Roman Divine Office. If I remember right, Reid says that autocratic move by the Pope and the timid resistance to it among religious helped lay the philosophical groundwork for the Novus Ordo 60 years later.
Whaddya think jrny? I know you have some wisdom on all this!
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Great to see you back Brian, you have been missed around here!
Your are correct, it is premature to express such jubilation.
On the other hand, whn two people are in love, they normally end up together despite often significant odds. When two people merely share interests, the prospect for their partnership is still remote.
The renewed atmosphere in East-West relationship suggests that maybe, hopefully, the two Churches are falling in love again, not merely decide to co-operate. So it is big news.
Watch the reunion with SSPX. If it is implemented in full in this pontificate, the road to the East-West reunification will be much clearer.
At the end of his book, the author enumerates some principles for proper reform: this should keep being open to development, and continuity with the Tradition, in a proper balance; it includes awareness of an objective liturgical tradition, and therefore takes care to ensure a substantial continuity. The author then agrees with the Catechism of the Catholic Church in emphasizing that “even the supreme authority in the Church may not change the Liturgy arbitrarily, but only in the obedience of faith and with religious respect for the mystery of the Liturgy”. (CCC No. 1125, p. 258) As subsidiary criteria we then encounter the legitimacy of local traditions and the concern for pastoral effectiveness.
Criteria for Liturgical Renewal
From my own personal point of view I should like to give further particular emphasis to some of the criteria for liturgical renewal thus briefly indicated. I will begin with those last two main criteria.
It seems to me most important that the Catechism, in mentioning the limitation of the powers of the supreme authority in the Church with regard to reform, recalls to mind what is the essence of the primacy as outlined by the First and Second Vatican Councils: The pope is not an absolute monarch whose will is law, but is the guardian of the authentic Tradition, and thereby the premier guarantor of obedience. He cannot do as he likes, and is thereby able to oppose those people who for their part want to do what has come into their head. His rule is not that of arbitrary power, but that of obedience in faith. That is why, with respect to the Liturgy, he has the task of a gardener, not that of a technician who builds new machines and throws the old ones on the junk-pile. The “rite”, that form of celebration and prayer which has ripened in the faith and the life of the Church, is a condensed form of living tradition in which the sphere which uses that rite expresses the whole of its faith and its prayer, and thus at the same time the fellowship of generations one with another becomes something we can experience, fellowship with the people who pray before us and after us. Thus the rite is something of benefit which is given to the Church, a living form of paradosis — the handing-on of tradition.
It is important, in this connection, to interpret the “substantial continuity” correctly. The author expressly warns us against the wrong path up which we might be led by a neo-scholastic sacramental theology which is disconnected from the living form of the Liturgy. On that basis, people might reduce the “substance” to the material and form of the sacrament, and say: Bread and wine are the material of the sacrament, the words of institution are its form. Only these two things are really necessary, everything else is changeable.
At this point Modernists and Traditionalists are in agreement: As long as the material gifts are there, and the words of institution are spoken, then everything else is freely disposable. Many priests today, unfortunately, act in accordance with this motto; and the theories of many liturgists are unfortunately moving in the same direction. They want to overcome the limits of the rite, as being something fixed and immovable, and construct the products of their fantasy, which are supposedly “pastoral”, around this remnant, this core which has been spared, and which is thus either relegated to the realm of magic, or loses any meaning whatever. The Liturgical Movement had in fact been attempting to overcome this reductionism, the product of an abstract sacramental theology, and to teach us to understand the Liturgy as a living network of tradition which had taken concrete form, which cannot be torn apart into little pieces, but has to be seen and experienced as a living whole. Anyone like myself, who was moved by this perception in the time of the Liturgical Movement on the eve of the Second Vatican Council, can only stand, deeply sorrowing, before the ruins of the very things they were concerned for.
And sometimes the two people who are in love are so incompatible they are better off being separate because otherwise they will cause each other's ruin.
Although Pope Benedict XVI said any reunion must be without morphing or absorbing, the truth is that the Orthodox see the reunion possible when the Catholics become Orthodox again, and the Catholics imagine the Orthodox becoming like the uniate Eastern Catholics. Fat chance.
Just as the Orthodox Church is defined by the first millennium, the Catholic Church is defined by the second millennium, which are night and day.
Theologically, any reunion at this point would require one side giving up part of its belief and that is just not very likely, just as the Council of Florence discovered.
Government officials in Portugal report that Pope Benedict XVI plans to visit the shrine of Our Lady of Fatima next year. The report indicates that the Pope will make the trip in May, to preside at celebrations for the feast of Our Lady of Fatima, May 13. The Vatican-- which ordinarily does not confirm a papal trip until a few weeks before it takes place-- has not commented on the reports.
Pope John Paul II traveled to Fatima on three occasions during his pontificate, making his final trip in 2000 to preside at the beatification of Blessed Jacinta and Franscisco Marto, two of the three children to whom the Blessed Virgin appeared there. (The third Fatima seer, Sister Lucia Santos, died in 2005; a cause for her beatification was opened in 2008, after Pope Benedict waived the rule requiring a 5-year waiting period.) Pope John Paul had a special devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, crediting her with saving his life when he was shot in St. Peter's Square on her feast day: May 13, 1981.
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Good to see you doc.
I think, the Orthodox Church is primarily defined by the Muslim and Communist oppression, but a time will come when she heals.
Good to be back, thanks!
I disagree wiht that, Alex. I don't think the EOC is sick at all. It shows remarkable health and resilieance, despite centuries-long oppresions. The Orthodox Church is the immunized first millenium Church in the liturgical sense and otherwise. Very transcendental relative to the world.
I did not mean to imply that the West is free from its own sicknesses, but in viewing how the East is approaching the prospect of reunion, I see fear and chest-thumping, and very little love. Exceptions are few, and when they happen, they are heartening. May they happen more often.
The Orthodox look at the Catholic liturgy, the pantsuit nuns, the alter girls, the barren Protestant-like churches and say "What?" Then we read that there are forces (not small) in the current Latin Church that absolutely hate +BXVI and want the Traditional Latin Mass permanently banned.
Why would the Orthodox want a reunion with such a Church? It only serves to prove to them that the Schism was not about the East leaving the West but the other way around.
If there were genuine, rather thaaforced attempts to return Catholicism to its Patristic roots, there would be very little chest-thumping and fear among the Orthodox.
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