Posted on 01/17/2010 8:50:17 AM PST by OneVike
After the Earthquake that devastated Haiti, Pat Robertson was accused of saying that God was punishing Haiti because of the evil practices of its people. At first I must admit that I cringed and even stated that he was out of line and the statement was ignorant on his part, especially when the Scriptures go directly against such foolish beliefs. Then I looked into what Pat actually said, and found this statement put out by CBN:
"Pat Robertson's comments were based on the widely-discussed 1791 slave rebellion led by Boukman Dutty at Bois Caiman, where the slaves allegedly made a famous pact with the devil in exchange for victory over the French. This history, combined with the horrible state of the country, has led countless scholars and religious figures over the centuries to believe the country is cursed. Dr. Robertson never stated that the earthquake was God's wrath. If you watch the entire video segment, Dr. Robertson's compassion for the people of Haiti is clear. CBN
So Pat Robertson did not say what he was accused of saying, yet I still have a problem with the so called scholars whom he quoted and it is their belief that I want to address today. I must question how well learned these scholars are for making such a claim. After all, a simple reading of the encounter that Abraham had when he was visited by three angels on their way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah should be enough to dispel such nonsense. 16Genesis 18:16:33 God was willing to spare the whole of Sodom and Gomorrah if, as Abraham pleaded, He found 10 righteous individuals. Well, God did not find 10 righteous people and so, destroyed both cities. Regardless of how evil the men of Sodom were, God was willing to spare them. I could probably list many of the evils things that have been going on in Haiti, from their supposed deal with the devil in 1791 all the way up their current practices of Voodoo. However, I could probably find and list the names of Haitians who practice their Christian beliefs as good or even better then many Christians I know in America. That would be hundreds of times the number of people God was looking for to spare Sodom and Gomorrah.
What many Christians fail to understand is that God did not target the people of Haiti for their sinful ways no more then He specifically targeted Indonesia in 2004 when it was devastated by a tsunami, or America on September 11, 2001. I can think of a certain few cities in America that are just as evil in God's eyes, if not more so, because they have more access to the truth than many people in Haiti do. Last time I looked San Francisco is still among the cities of America.
Furthermore, we live in a dispensation of time that was ushered in by Christ. This new dispensation makes each individual person responsible for his own sin. There is no corporate punishment for countries or societies like there was in the Old Testament times. Other than the final judgment that is spoken of in Revelation when God will finally judges all mankind, there is no such thing as God punishing nations. Like it or not that is a fact. Christ came as the Lamb of God the first time to usher in His church and die for our sins. The next time He comes it will be with a sword, and He will Usher in His Kingdom.
Now as far as disasters are concerned, it's easy to think of nature as serene and safe--the way that many people who enjoy the comforts of the modern world experience it. We in America are used to nature when and how we like it. But natural disasters are faith-shakers. It may be that we in the west should ask why we do not suffer more faith strengthening natural disasters. Katrina should have been a faith building disaster, but we allowed too many to use it for political purposes and in the process too few realized the moment to trust fully in God as they should have. We would be wise to study the actions of the early Christians who suffered many tragedies for their faith. For them, suffering was not a metaphysical problem needing a solution but a practical challenge needing a response of faith. Apparently it never occurred to them to question their belief in God or his goodness because they were unjustly suffering from either man made or natural disasters. Rather, their faith gave them direction in the face of persecution and general misfortune. God did not cause the earthquake nor did he step in to stop it, because he expects us to use those moments of trouble to look to Him.
There will come a time when we will all collectively be tested by persecution and tragedies because of mankind's sin, but depending on what your understanding of the end times is, the way, and time will happen when God is ready. Ones understanding of how and when the end will come has no bearing upon the salvation of ones soul. Acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior will save you, not your understanding of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
So in conclusion, I would advise any and all Christians to refrain from claiming God is targeting any population of people for the corporate sin of their society as some have erroneously claimed.
I pray that those who have ears to hear will hear His voice and call upon the name of the lord Jesus Christ.
Amen
Or, is the belief that, while all good and all success is given by and comes from God, but that God bears no responsibility at all for tragedies?
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I apologize for posting this so late, I am behind the gun today so please keep me in your prayers that I may get to my allotted destinations on time when I should.
God bless you all.
Apparently prayers to God to spare us from disasters of nature such as hurricanes and pandemics- are useless
God is not in control
(didn’t Haitians claim to have prayed or voo doo’ed away a hurricane several years ago?)
“Apparently prayers to God to spare us from disasters of nature such as hurricanes and pandemics- are useless”
Prayer ain’t a drive-thru window. You want fries with that miracle?
So if we aren’t supposed to know the time of the end then how can we deny that this could be it. Mankind ( those who have not come to Christ) will feel the wrath of God in those days. The Bible tells us to watch and be prepared, not scoff at those who choose to do that...
So...what of this 1791 pact? that’s the real question. I’m sick of people talking about robertson while dancing around this. did the pact happen or didn’t it? The rest of these discussions are really stupid and pointless until this is discussed.
I know, I know...we aren’t supposed to point out the choices we made when a tragedy happens. It isn’t nice.
However- it is NOT God’s fault and bad things are NOT “God’s plan” for us. But the sad truth is that we CHOSE to “know both good and evil”; we CHOSE to
“be as gods”. It’s called free will. Whenever there is pain, loss and disaster, we would do well to remember that this is what we wanted and hot shots like us would make the same choice again. That’s called pride and we ALL suffer from it.
You take the bad with the good and we sure don’t mind taking the credit when things go right.
There are two big problems which most people have with religion, i.e. evolution(ism) and the question of evil. The question of evil is still the bigger problem and natural disasters are one aspect of it. The basic answer is found in Jesus’ words to the effect that his father’s kingdom is not of this world. That means that the spirit realm has little if any real power to act in this physical world which we inhabit. It’s a question of whether terms like ‘omnipotent’ or ‘all powerful’ mean having all the power which anybody could imagine, or all the power that there actually is. The former leads inevitably to conundrums and violations of logic; the later does not.
God had nothing to do with the tsunami that hit Christmas day on a nation that pracitced a sex trade with children...or many in that nation...oh really? I think you are misreading God and not even looking well at our history when we were a more faithful country. The leaders and people of America often prayed to God for repentence after big disasters, it is only now in the modern era that we divorce right and wrong and God from natural disasters. I beleive God is much tougher than we want to beleive in our own dark weakness. Haiti is sooo sick and has been for so many years that I believe this was a wake up call for them to repent, or continue in the hard hearted ways. And God DID spare the huge majority of haitians, so the authors Sodom and Gomorah comparison is not valid.
Don’t blame God, He doesn’t exist.
If it is true (this pact) and if you are a conservative believer, then the concept of blessings and curses spoken of in scripture are not far fetched. A pact with the devil and widespread participation in Voodoo does not fall under the heading of "Ways to be Blessed by God". Is this why they are the poorest country in the world and seem to constantly be dealing with natural disasters? Who am I to say for sure. But like Robertson, based on my beliefs, I have my opinion. Just who are those that are critical of him to say it is not a curse...and if they are taking that stand, are they not doing the same thing that they are criticizing him for...expressing their opinion?
What this is is a classic case of religious persecution fueled by political ideology. He made a statement based on his understanding of Haitian history and his religious beliefs. The bigger story is why he is being criticized for making these statements on his show. If people don't agree with his staements and/or opinions, then TURN THE CHANNEL!
At least he is not screaming from the pulpit, "G.D. America" to the delight of the congregation.
By Tom Barrett (03/11/04)
"Haiti is the only country in the entire world that has dedicated its government to Satan. Demonic spirits have been consulted for political decisions, and have shaped the country's history." Thus speaks Reverend Doug Anderson, who grew up in Haiti with missionary parents, and served there along with his wife Dawn as a missionary until 1990. The leaders of Haiti make no attempt to hide their allegiance to Satan. Haiti's government is a government of the devil, by the devil, and for the devil.
It is a matter of well-documented historical fact that the nation of Haiti was dedicated to Satan 200 years ago. On August 14, 1791, a group of houngans (voodoo priests), led by a former slave houngan named Boukman, made a pact with the Devil at a place called Bois-Caiman. All present vowed to exterminate all of the white Frenchmen on the island. They sacrificed a black pig in a voodoo ritual at which hundreds of slaves drank the pig's blood. In this ritual, Boukman asked Satan for his help in liberating Haiti from the French. In exchange, the voodoo priests offered to give the country to Satan for 200 years and swore to serve him. On January 1, 1804, the nation of Haiti was born and thus began a new demonic tyranny.
At the time of the pact Haiti was France's richest colony, and was known as the "Pearl of the Antilles" for its singular beauty. But it soon became one of the world's poorest and most benighted nations. Scoffers may say that there is no connection between the fact that Haiti was the richest nation in the hemisphere, and then became the poorest after selling its national soul to Satan. But the scoffers can't come up with a better explanation.
Voodoo is a practice based on a mixture of African spiritism and witchcraft. Depending on the source of one's research, between 75 and 90 percent of Haitians practice voodoo. This seems to fly in the face of the fact that the country is predominantly Catholic. But, like their African ancestors, voodoo practitioners have no problem embracing multiple religions. In fact, most who practice voodoo believe they must be Catholic first.
Until recently, voodoo was practiced in secret. Practitioners would go to the Catholic Church on Sunday, and attend voodoo ceremonies deep in the woods at other times. Voodoo was forbidden during the colonial times, and the 32 Haitian governments that followed independence also suppressed the practice because of world condemnation. But on April 8, 2003, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide approved Voodoo as an officially recognized religion in Haiti (see links below). Voodoo priests can now perform marriages and other ceremonies previously reserved for Christian religions. "An ancestral religion, Voodoo is an essential part of national identity," Aristide said in the decree recognizing Voodoo.
Aristide has been a controversial figure since he became the first freely elected president in Haiti's history in 1991, 200 years after the nation was dedicated to Satan. A defrocked Catholic priest, Aristide was expelled in 1988 from his order, the Salesians. He was a hero of the resistance to Haitian tyranny, then president, then exiled, then restored to the presidency by his close friend, Bill Clinton. One of his first acts was to express his support for reinstating the Voodoo pact that expired the year he was elected. He claimed that Voodoo was the "national religion" of Haiti, and a source of national pride.
Even before Aristide came to power, a U.S. embassy official in Port-au-Prince described Aristide as "a Marxist maniac." Newsweek Magazine called him "the flaky Father Jean-Bertrand Aristide." And none other than Henry Kissinger declared that he was "psychotic." While it is true that Aristide used Communism to gain power, I don't believe he is psychotic. What many see as madness is simply the pure evil that emanates from the man.
The Media Research Center (see link below), which describes Aristide as a "charismatic Marxist priest" had this to say about the man: "Aristide wasn't much of a Democrat, paying people to beat up his opponents, and becoming wealthy from drug trafficking into the U.S. For a good, brief primer on Aristide, see "Aristide Must Go," the editorial in the March 8 Weekly Standard. It explains how 'It is not the democratic authorities that are being overthrown in Haiti, but Aristide's retinue of gunmen.'" (There is a link to this article below, as well.)
Aristide was only in office eight months before he was ousted and fled to the United States. There he effectively lobbied Bill Clinton and other government officials, convincing them that he was not the tyrant that Haitians said he was. After Clinton sent 20,000 American troops to install Aristide in power in 1994, the president-turned-dictator disbanded the army. But the civilian police force he replaced it with has also brutalized the Haitian people, engaging in summary executions as well as the drug-running that has made Aristide the richest man in Haiti. This drug money allows Aristide to live in a lavish mansion in a nation where the average yearly salary is $350.
As the Weekly Standard editorial by Christopher Caldwell says, "Aristide, of course, did not create Haiti's problems, but he profits from all of them. His ten years of direct and indirect rule have been a disaster. His regime has been democratic only in the Haitian sense of one man, one vote, one time. The last free and fair election in Haiti was in 1990, the closely monitored contest that brought Aristide to power. Even then, Aristide was making use of street violence orchestrated by his "vigilance committees." Four years ago, Aristide received over 90 percent of the vote in a presidential election so transparently corrupt that several American and European agencies reluctantly froze hundreds of millions of dollars in aid money.
With a mystifying regularity reminiscent of Saddam Hussein, Aristide has refused the simplest procedural inducements to unlock millions that could have been used to feed and treat his poorer compatriots. From humble beginnings as a Salesian slum priest, Aristide has become the richest man in Haiti. How? Last Wednesday in Miami, the Haitian mafioso Beaudoin Ketant, go-between for three Colombian cartels, was sentenced to 27 years in prison for transporting 30 tons of cocaine between Haiti and Florida. At his sentencing, Ketant said that Aristide "is a drug lord. He controlled the drug trade in Haiti. It's a one-man show, your honor. You either pay him or you die."
Caldwell goes on to relate how Aristide created a series of banks that paid absurd rates of interest, which enticed Haiti's tiny middle class to deposit their hard-earned dollars. He then stole $90 million from the banks, effectively demolishing the middle class and creating a classic poor-against-rich uprising that resulted in his ouster.
Democrat almost-nominee John Kerry spoke out in support of Aristide prior to his resignation, saying "This democracy is going to be sustained." Democrat Charlie Rangel and the Congressional Black Caucus, along with such upstanding citizens as "Reverend" Jesse Jackson and Alcee Hastings (the former federal judge convicted of bribery), have been calling for the US to once again install Aristide in power following his recent resignation. They have been irresponsibly trumpeting his ridiculous lies about being "kidnapped" by the US and "forced into exile." The obvious facts are that Aristide begged for US help and we protected him. When it became clear that the only way his safety could be assured was to leave the country, we provided transportation for him.
Had we not intervened, Aristide would have been dead in a matter of days, so furious were the people he had abused for years. He gladly boarded the plane, grateful for our protection. Now that he is safe, he is laying the groundwork for a possible comeback with his preposterous lies. Rangel, Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee and the rest of the Black Caucus should be ashamed of siding with a vicious dictator against their own country. I don't have a bone of prejudice in my body against blacks. But I am greatly prejudiced against the members of this Caucus because of their constant use of the race card, whether or not race is an issue. It is clearly not the issue here. The fact that Aristide is black is not why his countrymen want him gone. It is because he is an evil man.
My biggest problem with this man is the fact that, not only did he make Voodoo an official religion, he used every device available to him to promote it. On the day that his government officially recognized Voodoo, he paid all the radio stations to play nothing but Voodoo music all day. He flew in 400 Voodoo priests from West Africa, the birthplace of the evil religion, to promote it.
A missionary couple who run an orphanage and a school for 400 children in Haiti sent a report to their supporters last summer (see the link to "Religious Persecution Intensifies in Haiti" below). It reads, in part, "Last week a baby was stolen from the hospital in St. Marc. The reason the child is to be sacrificed to appease the Voodoo gods for the so-called special day of celebration." Can there be any question of the horribly evil nature of this "religion" that former priest Aristide promotes?
And now for the good news. Even with Aristide's support and promotion, Voodoo in Haiti is doomed. God's people have gone on the offensive, and the blood pact that has kept Haiti in darkness for 200 years has been broken.
I first heard this account from Bishop Joel Jeune at a meeting of the Gospel Crusade Ministerial Fellowship (www.GCMF.org). Jeune is the Coordinator of Haiti for the GCMF and oversees 64 churches there.
The link, "US Department of State Report of Religious Freedom" below contains this report: "In early August 1997, three evangelical pastors were arrested near Cap Haitien after they had proceeded with plans to hold a religious revival at Bois Caiman. Bois Caiman has a strong patriotic significance for Haitians, since it is the site of a legendary 1791 voodoo ceremony at which slaves swore to rise up against their masters and risk death rather than continue to live in bondage. The resulting slave rebellion was a precursor to the Haitian Revolution (1791-1804)."
"The pastors, who had been prohibited by the authorities from holding the revival on the actual anniversary of the ceremony, proceeded instead with plans to hold the event several days before the anniversary, hoping to rid the area of malevolent influences. This offended much of the local populace and local authorities, who arrested pastors Joel Jeune, Jean Berthony Paul, and Gregor Joseph on August 4. They were released on the orders of a judge on August 6."
The government account tells only part of the story. In the link "Haiti - God's country after a 'holy invasion'" you will see the following and much more (very exciting reading):
"On 14 August 1997, God's people in Haiti experienced a historic victory over Satan, a milestone in winning our country back for God. The reason lies in history. The slaves brought here from Africa have suffered incredibly for many years. On 14 August 1791, a slave leader by the name of Boukman called a secret meeting in a wood called Bois-Caiman near Cap Haitien, which was attended by a large number of slaves. They celebrated a satanic ceremony, sacrificing a pig and drinking its blood, swore to serve the Devil and dedicated Haiti to him. For 206 years, Bois-Caiman was a very holy place, a high place which could only be entered by witch doctors during Voodoo ceremonies. For 206 years, they have been meeting there every August 14 to sacrifice to Satan."
"A number of Christian leaders, including Paul and Gerald Clerie of 'Vision: Haiti' and Christian leaders among the large numbers of Haitians in the USA, Canada, France and other countries, called Christians to unite on 14 August 1997 to pray and fast that Haiti would return to God. In Haiti's towns, villages and mountains, Christians came together to fast and pray, held victory marches in the streets and a large event in the capital from 6am to 10pm during the holy invasion."
"Our church members started their march in front of the President's palace and marched for 6 hours to the place where the satanic ceremony took place 206 years ago. We had informed the government and media of our intentions weeks before the event, and were told that the witch doctors would be there, as they were every year. When we arrived, they had hidden themselves, unable to directly confront the Christians. It was a significant spiritual battle to reach the tree under which the pig was sacrificed in the original ceremony. We formed a Jericho march, circling the magic tree seven times. On the seventh time around, God gave many people a vision of the Devil fleeing from the area. The Christians were overjoyed. We cancelled the satanic contract and broke the curse, before celebrating communion and dedicating the area as a place of prayer. We also declared 14 August to be a national prayer day, on which people should pray that Haiti will return to God."
"On the same day, several witch doctors were saved during the events in the capital. Three days after our holy invasion, the witch doctors returned to Bois-Caiman to bring their sacrifices and call on the spirits. After days of effort, nothing happened, because we had commanded the spirits never to return and dedicated the area to Christ."
"The witch doctors complained to the government and media. At first, the government also protested, speaking in a press release of 'terrible damage to a Voodoo holy place in which no Christian had set foot for 206 years.' By the grace of God, the government relented and respected our legal right as Haitians to gather at any place on Haiti, including Bois-Caiman, where they now allow all Christian groups to meet. The place is now very popular, and local Christians gather there daily for prayer and fasting. All Haitians now know that the country no longer has a pact with the Devil; the contract has been cancelled, the curse broken."
In 1991, 200 years after his predecessors had dedicated Haiti to Satan, Jean-Bertrand Aristide became president of Haiti and attempted to renew the contract. In 1997, the contract was broken forever. In 2003, in a last desperate attempt to retain power, Aristide made Voodoo an official religion. And now he is gone. Let us pray that Haiti, with its newfound freedom, will turn to the one true God.
US Department of State Report of Religious Freedom
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/irf/irf_haiti99.html
Haiti - God's country after a 'holy invasion'
http://www.jesus.org.uk/dawn/1998/dawn9802.html
Victory Over Voodoo in Haiti
http://www.christian-connection.org/print.php?sid=299
Religious Persecution Intensifies In Haiti
http://www.andyfigueroa.net/haiti.htm
Haiti; Satan's Stronghold
http://www.raptureme.com/rap16.html
Breaking the Blood Pact
http://www.newdirections.org/index.php/pressroom
Aristide Approves Voodoo as an Official Religion
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/archives/00002966.html
Voodoo - It's Official in Haiti
http://www.ccgm.org.au/articles/ARTICLE-0070.htm
Aristide Defends Record
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/5060184.htm
Aristide Mansion
http://www.salon.com/news/1999/03/12news.html
Media Research Center
http://www.mediaresearch.org/printer/cyberalerts/2004/cyb20040302pf.asp
"Pearl of the Antilles"
http://www.rminet.org/retreat_center.htm
"Aristide Must Go" - The Weekly Standard
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/795ywram.asp
Aristide Claims He Was Kidnapped from Haiti
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040306/wl_nm/haiti_aristide_dc_1
Islamic Influences on Haitian Voodoo
http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/voodoo/islam.htm
The Challenges Facing Haiti
http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/bookreviews/arisfarmplum.htm
Some articles by Tom Barrett (the link below), so you can see where he's coming from...
Tom Barrett has been an ordained minister for 30 years. He has written for local and national publications for most of his life, and has authored several non-fiction books. He has been interviewed on many TV and radio programs, and speaks at seminars nationwide. Tom is the editor and publisher of Conservative Truth, an email newsletter read by over fifty thousand weekly which focuses on moral and political issues from a Biblical viewpoint.
Conservative Truth is published weekly. Each issue is read by approximately 50,000 people worldwide. If you're tired of the same old liberal slant that the major media give to the news, you'll find Conservative Truth a breath of fresh air. Did you know that 92% of the producers, anchors, editors and reporters that decide what news you are allowed to see are registered to vote either as Democrats or Socialists? 100% of the Editorial Staff of Conservative Truth are Conservative Republicans or Libertarians.
Conservative Truth reports on news that the major media censor. We offer original commentary on the major moral, social and political issues of the day from a Biblical, moral conservative viewpoint. We're not ashamed to say that America is the greatest country on this globe, but neither are we afraid to point out areas where our politicians are leading us astray.
[ ... ]
Always remember this: Regardless of what the liberal left would have you believe, you live in the greatest nation that has ever existed on the earth, and God is still in control.
You are skirting it. Keep dancing. Dancing fool.
God is sovereign over all nature all of the time.But God uses natural disasters to punish evil only some of the time. Some Christian leaders should not embarrass themselves by assuming, without it being clearly revealed by God,that a specific natural disaster has come upon the earth as a specific judgment by God on specific people.
Pat Robertson’s statement reminds me of two
Bible verses:
“Gal 6:7 (Jer) Don’t delude yourself into thinking God can be cheated: where a man sows, there he reaps.”
“Rev 3:19 (NIV) [Jesus] “Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.”
Chastisement is in many verses in scripture.
Ad hominem attacks.....used when facts are NOT on your side.
Have a nice day.
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