When are we saved?

Antinomianism and Salvation ^ | November 19,2010 | Gart O'Toole

[Benchim]

But "legalists" wants you to live under the Old Testament law in order to get "Tithes" to pay their mortgages as "professional Christians" and to do this they reimpose the falsehood that you must live a"sinless" life. Sin is undefined but they want to throw you back under the law to get you to pay money and feel guilt when your salvation was a free gift from God. The key to this argument is Paul in Chapter 7 of Romans.

[Benchim]

The truth of salvation is obfuscated on purpose. It gives deceivers a chance to confuse you and make you struggle ( and pay them) when there is no question that you are saved.

[CynicalBear]

“believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be save-and your house”. That’s when you are saved.

You are not saved by a Church, Deacon, pastor, priest, rabbi or anything you do personally.

[Twinkie]

When we call upon the name of the Lord, repent and ask Him to save us. It’s a mystery.

[Arlis]

Amen, bro. Only God Himself really knows WHEN someone is saved.

And while we can know that we really ARE saved (I John 5:13), for certain there are many who think that they are but who tragically will find they are not. I Jn. 5:2. ‘by their fruit you shall know them...’

[Alex Murphy]

But "legalists" wants you to live under the Old Testament law in order to get "Tithes" to pay their mortgages as "professional Christians" and to do this they reimpose the falsehood that you must live a"sinless" life. Sin is undefined but they want to throw you back under the law to get you to pay money and feel guilt when your salvation was a free gift from God.

Who are these "legalists" of which you speak? Can you name names?

[meadsjn]

You are saved when you stuff your superstitions and dogma into a very out-of-the-way storage compartment, get off your duff, and fight for your freedom from tyranny, whether against this communist onslaught, or against religious tyranny (with God's help, of course).

God is real, I believe, but can't prove.

Religion is man-made; that's a fact.

[Benchim]

You nailed it. Why the deception by others?

[Benchim]

John 3:16. That’s it.

[Doulos1]

Simple, Romans 10:9,10.
Next question.

[doc1019]

WOW, talk about a mixed message. Here is someone reaching out for clarification.

[charlie72]

If you want to go to Heaven when it’s your time, ask Jesus Christ to take you there. That’s what one of the thieves on the cross beside Jesus did.

[Persevero]

Jesus said you must be born again.

When asked what they must do to be saved, people were told to repent and be baptized; and, to believe and be baptized.

Baptism is a sacrament done by elders in the church, as we can see in the New Testament. You don’t baptize yourself. Even Jesus went to the local prophet to be baptized.

Because we see the thief on the cross being told he’ll be in heaven with Jesus without baptism, we assume that if you are willing to be baptized but the actual baptism doesn’t happen, it’s still good. That’s not the same as refusing baptism.

Jesus calls the church His body. I wouldn’t denigrate it.

He gave specific instructions about how the government of the church is to be run; particularly for elders/bishops and deacons. Interestingly, He gave instructions for casting out of the church those who walk contrary to His word. Hard to cast someone out who isn’t a member in the first place!

There are false churches. You must, like the Bereans, inspect the Bible to see to it that your church is one that is obedient to God’s teachings. You have to take that responsibility. But it is not excuse to indulge your pride -

-your pride -

and say you won’t be part of His church.

Jesus also calls the church His bride. You want to be part of that. He did not create His church on a whim. It is a real and serious institution of great importance. The nursery of young believers, the sender of missionaries, the teacher of right doctrine, the help of those in need, the refuge of the needy, the place where baptism and the Lord’s Supper are served - it is not optional.

Jesus said He is the bridegroom. He said he will come for His bride, and there will be a great marriage supper in heaven. You want to be there.

As for teaching about tithes and so forth, salvation is not earned by obedience. But obedience to God’s word (not sinful men) is the evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. If you have no interest in keeping God’s law (not to earn your salvation, but for God’s glory and your benefit) I would wonder how could you be a Christian? “By grace ye are saved,” but, “Faith without works is dead.”

[wmfights]

Baptism is a sacrament done by elders in the church, as we can see in the New Testament. You don’t baptize yourself. Even Jesus went to the local prophet to be baptized.

If a sacrament imparts grace, why did Jesus get baptized?

The other thing you're missing is the sequence of events. The Biblical model is belief first then baptism.

[fish hawk]

BINGO !!! We are saved by Grace and that itself is a gift from God. There is NO human deed or merit that can save you no matter what your Priest, Elder, Pastor,Rabbi, or anyone else tells you. Like it says, if the Law could give you righteousness, you could have been saved by the Law. But only Christ’s dying for you can do that. And while he was hanging there for you, the Law was nailed to that very cross.

[Irenic]

I don’t know— I reckon Jesus will tell me when the time comes.

[fish hawk]

I can. Most liberals and the Democratic party. Congress people that think that they are not doing their job unless they are passing laws. Laws that they themselves cannot live by and wont. In the churches you can tell a legalist by what they say. No lipstick, no wine or beer, no dancing, no rock and roll music. These are legalists. you probably know a few. I believe it's called asceticism, thou shalt not, punish thy self so you will feel better.

[truthbetold11]

Let the truthbetold!!!!! The most contriversal words ever spoken were and you wont him them in the politcally correct churches. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life noone comes to the Father except through me. Wow.! that means no budda mohammed etc!! Don’t take passages out of context. First christian sermon was. Peter ACTS 2.36-37 repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of jesus christ for the forgiveness of sins and you will recieve the gift of the holy spirit. No saving prays. must follow scripture greatest day of my life was that day nov 24 ,1988. greatest day ever

[Salvation]

Money does not mean that you are saved, however.

[Salvation]

The “Necessity” of Being Catholic (Ecumenical Caucus)
Can Non-Catholics Be Saved?
Salvation -- Are You Saved?
No Salvation Outside the Church

What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Who Can Be Saved?
Grace, Faith, and Works

Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)
My Personal Savior
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.
Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)

Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)
The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today
Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope
Worthy Is the Lamb?
Limbo and the Hope of Salvation

[Salvation]

 

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on "Once Saved, Always Saved:"

161. "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. [Cf. Mk 16:16 ; Jn 3:36 ; Jn 6:40 ; et al.] 'Since 'without faith it is impossible to please (God)' and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'']"

162. "Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: 'Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith.' [1 Tim 1:18-19 .] To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith; [Cf. Mk 9:24 ; Lk 17:5 ; Lk 22:32.] it must be 'working through charity,' abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church. [Gal 5:6 ; Rom 15:13 ; cf. Jam 2:14-26.]"

Finders Keepers? - The Evangelical notion that Christians can't lose their salvation is unbiblical.