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Posted on 11/24/2010 7:38:30 PM PST by truthfinder9
The authenticity Shroud of Turin has been the most debated of Christian relics in history. Many believe this is the burial shroud of Jesus. Some dismiss it out of hand because of their religious or philosophical beliefs about God. Some Protestants are wary of they perceive as a “Catholic” relic. But what if it is real? What if it is an authentic archaeological piece?
(Excerpt) Read more at shadowsofhistory.wordpress.com ...
But what if it is real? What if it is an authentic archaeological piece?
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What if it is? What difference does it make?
What if it is? What difference does it make
you’re kidding....right??
Maybe we are supposed to worship a cloth or something. :0)
My faith doesn’t rely on material objects.
It looks like a TSA scan.
Just like in Jurassic Park you take a dna sample from the blood..........
I don’t think he is.
It won’t change my faith one bit.
I don't need a relic/cloth to believe, but it is sweet to possibly have something that would help another's unbelief.
If it is, then Jesus created it deliberately, to be found and contemplated as 2000+ year old evidence of His existence and miraculous intervention in human civilization.
I, for one, do not choose to argue with Jesus' wisdom in doing this.
We already know from roman records that jesus was crucified in the typical roman way. Therefore he died, and then was given a death shroud.
I care about the actual shroud as much as I care about the actual cross. both are meaningless.
You wrote:
“We already know from roman records that jesus was crucified in the typical roman way.”
Nope. There are no contemporary Roman records that speak of Christ. None.
“I care about the actual shroud as much as I care about the actual cross. both are meaningless.”
Not to those who believe. Christians of old were wiser than some Christians today who are too stupid to realize the value of those things Jesus used for His eucatastrophe.
http://faculty.uca.edu/jona/texts/rood.htm
How come we cannot pinpoint the exact date of Jesus Birth or Death? I firmly believe the mystery is fully intentional on the part of God. God knows His creation so very well - and knows its proclivity to worship “things”, including days/dates. The same goes for Jesus tomb and the exact location of the stable.
The Word of God in no-way calls for the worship or adoration of anything other than Jesus Christ. Not pictures, remnants, places,or other “relics” (in fact, those clearly fall under the worship of idols).
Yet man continues to seek after “things” to place his trust in, while God calls us to faith in Him alone.
I have been weaving since 1984. So from a weaver’s viewpoint, the cloth has some flaws. The same kind of flaws as one of my younger apprentices would make.
I would think it would have been woven by a younger, not so experienced person.
Thanks for the ping!
You wrote:
“You may be wrong.”
Nope.
“I read somewhere that they have records from Pontius Pilate that talks about a Jesus.”
Nope. There are no such contemporary records. What you’re talking about are apocryphal stories.
“Not using his name but about being crucified. I could be wrong but wont hurt to look it up.”
Already have - many times. There are NO contemporary records from the Romans that attest to Jesus. The earliest records are from decades later. The book to read is by F.F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside of the New Testament (1974). Bruce discusses ALL of the known and genuine sources - Suetonius, Tacitus, etc.
“My words”?
Or God’s Word?
Leviticus 26:1 immediately comes to mind.
Isaiah 42:8
Isaiah 57:13
2 Kings 18:3-4
and of course - Exodus 20:4 would qualify as the “grand-daddy” regarding this issue.
All this being said - our desires can be idols. our habits or hobbies can be idols. What we eat or drink can be idols. Idols are anything that get the respect, reverence, attention, focus, worship, etc. that God deserves.
Again - I have yet to find in my years of extensive Biblical studies - ANY command or even suggestion that followers of Christ should worship/adore/revere ANYTHING or ANYONE but Jesus Christ alone.
And the referecne to relics raising someone from the dead- I assume you are referring to 2 Kings 13 when a man was cast into Elisha’s grave (presumably by accident because of impending danger). Where does that indicate that the “relics” were used intentionally by those burying the dead man? Further - how does this incident provide a defense for the collection and attempted USE (and the subsequent worship and adoration given the relics) of these items?
Closest thing I can find to the “collection” of relics advocated is when Moses carried the bones of Joseph. But what was the ultimate destination? That he might be buried in the promised land. NO indication is given for worship/adoration/mystical powers associated.
Notice that the location of Moses final grave is unknown even to this day... any guess why? Would the Hebrews not have worshiped the location and his remains? Quite possible, given the prominent position given to him.
“who said the Divine Liturgy over the bones or martyrs” - do you have any idea how silly (and unscriptural) that sounds?
According to the New Testament - how many real High Priests are there?
According to the New Testament, who is the only arbiter between mankind and God?
According to the New Testament - what are the “Saints” (lets not get into the definition as used by Paul just yet) doing when “seen” in Heaven? They are worshiping and singing to God. Not making petitions. Not interceding. For that is the position and job of God the Son - Jesus Christ.
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