Was Mary Sinless?

The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

[narses]

presently no screen name:
“The RCC traditions totally opposes God’s Word. “

John Calvin, A Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke
(St. Andrew’s Press, Edinburgh, 1972), p.32.

“To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son.”

[freedumb2003]

>>She is also beloved by the Orthodox.<<

That is good to know — thanks, lastchance.

[Religion Moderator]

Posters on every side wave bloody shirts in their choice of articles. That is to be expected on the Religion Forum.

Individual disputes between individual posters, however, should not be carried from thread to thread.

[Secret Agent Man]

Correct. Even Mary knew she needed her son Jesus as her Savior and Lord. If Mary was sinless there’d have been no reason for her (and Joseph) to reprimand Jesus when He stayed in the temple, she would have known He was in His Father’s house and not needed a parental “talking to” like that.

Further if Mary was sinless the Word of God is a liar. All are sinful. All fall short of the glory of God. Not one of us is holy and perfect. The very fact that under Grace, this present Church Age we are in, at Baptism God actually lives INSIDE US, while we still have a sin nature we fight against at the same time,

it is totally logical (and not only that, true) that Mary could give birth to the sinless Son of God, without being sinless.

The thing that’s so ironic is the very people who believe Mary was at conception, made instantly sinless by God, refuse to believe that when you die, God completes your sanctification instantly so that when you are absent from the body you will be present with the Lord, and instead want to believe God will not do that for you but instead delay it and somehow exact a little more suffering and discomfort until He feels you’re finally ready.

[narses]

“But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin...”

Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther’s Works,

English translation edited by J. Pelikan [Concordia: St.

Louis], Volume 4, 694.

[Mark17]

Mary - like other biblical figures of faith are great examples for us in our daily walk with Him.

Right on sister. There is no doubt at all that Mary was blessed among women, and a wonderful example, but not sinless. Hi again Annie and Rn. Keep the faith, for we are closer than we have ever been before.

[Salvation]

How many times do Catholics need to tell you that WE gave you the Bible. Like it or not, that's the truth. Even Luther said so.....LOL!

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

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"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

[lastchance]

You lie. But I see what you mean.
Did you know many Protestants have a strong inclination to follow the ancient worship of (insert male pagan deity of choice) who is called Lord, King of Heaven, Mighty. See that is how your lie works. Of course Protestants do not worship anyone but God. But I can take a fact and twist it to become calumny. You do it so well. I thought I would see if I could match your skill.

[Texas Eagle]

The bible says if you break ONE of the commandments you have broken them all (Jam 2:10)...

Doesn't the Bible also say that ALL have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God?

If Mary DIDN'T sin, then the Bible itself must be a lie.

[editor-surveyor]

> “Lourdes, Guadalupe, Fatima, Zeitoun”

.
You freely attribute these obvious demonic manifestations to Mary?

Truly sad!
.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not accuse another Freeper of telling a lie, it attributes motive, the intent to deceive. It is "making it personal."

Words such as "false" "wrong" "error" "misleading" do not attribute motive.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[freedumb2003]

>>That’s not the Mary of the Bible. The RCC traditions totally opposes God’s Word. <<

Nothing could be more clear.

So, RM, is Catholic-bashing allowed (or by some, encouraged)?

We seem to have left the confines of an academic debate of Mary’s status and just degenerated into the simple statement above.

I certainly don’t call for banning nor post deletion - just a clarification of the Religion Forum rules...

[Texas Eagle]

Mary was not immaculately conceived, she was immaculately impregnated.

[lastchance]

The feast of the Immaculate Conception is approaching they are getting an early start.

I know non Catholics who believe Mary was blessed and that she lived a sinless life. I can accept their belief as it does not dishonor her. But when the bashers on here claim she was just a vessel or that she could well have been a doxy I get very angry.

[Religion Moderator]

Posters may condemn dieties, religious authorities, beliefs, groups of believers, authors, etc. on "open" Religion Forum threads. But they must not "make it personal" - e.g. reading minds, attributing motives, making the thread "about" individual Freepers, etc.

Thick skin is required for the town square format of "open" Religion Forum threads.

Different guidelines apply to "caucus" "ecumenical" "devotional" and "prayer" threads.

Click on my profile page for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.

[metmom]

Not quite. He needed a sinless vessel to bring the Savior.

No, He didn't. Show us where it says that in Scripture.

Do you have any idea WHY Jesus was sinless?

Jesus HAD to be born of a virgin, live as a man, then die as a martyr for God to save all of mankind.

Yes, yes, and no.

He had to do the first two to fulfill prophecy, but he did not die as a martyr. He died as a sacrifice to redeem mankind from the penalty of sin.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

Thanks for the links.

It is quite instructional here. To see so many who claim to be Christian yet are unable to even respond without anger and untruths about a religion they know nothing about.

Learning to read would be a good thing. Perhaps they could start with the Bible and work themselves up to the early Church fathers. Perhaps some history could become part of the mix.

[freedumb2003]

>>I know non Catholics who believe Mary was blessed and that she lived a sinless life. I can accept their belief as it does not dishonor her. But when the bashers on here claim she was just a vessel or that she could well have been a doxy I get very angry.<<

I am pretty sure RCC doctrine is that not so much she lived a sinless life, but was absolved of sin at the time of the Immaculate Conception. “Blessed art thou amongst women” is a strong and poignant statement — directly from God’s messengers and not to be taken lightly.