Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
As determined by whom? The congregation suffers for tenure.
A bold accusation I see again with no examples of it. While you are praying the Lord's Prayer, think of what you are asking, consider your accusation. FR doesn't know of whom you speak, God does however and He knows the DP and the truth, contrasted with net ramblings. Sometimes freedom is used unwisely, this is a good example.
Hippy doctrine: I find God in the Now, what I have done in the past, doesn't matter because I have a version of the oldest excuse in the Book to explain away my sinfulness:
Genesis 3:
12The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate."
It's not my fault, x, y, or z led me astray in __________ (fill in the blank).
Flip Wilson was wrong about "the devil made me do it." The devil led you to it, but you did it.
The only approval I need comes from my Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm guessing you didn't check with Him before some of these accusations were flung around, considering the content.
Must be the 'royal' we and our.
I was raised LCMS (I am no longer). I never heard a word against the Jews and never had the slightest thoughts against them until ten years ago when I found out that they and the liberals are trying to blame Christianity for the holocaust. That is a slander which cannot be allowed to stand.
According to the New Testament, Christians are the chosen, the elect. That is nothing to be prideful about. Jesus made believers into one people. The unbelieving branches were removed and we were grafted in. Is that replacement?
This, in some ways, is my experience as well. My Father and I were antisemitic. In LCMS worship and Bible study we were the true Israel, This was fine with me. The real Israel did not really exist, after all they rejected Christ. P#4 When I first met him felt very bad for the poor Palestinians and equated Israel with white South Africa and apartheid.
Maybe this fiction process on FR is part of the checking with him process. If there is a book it may be nonfiction. I do have thousands of pages of actual documents for the events of my story avilable. I did ask P#4 and my best friend about my FR conversations and they did not say I should stop yet. I am trying to only refer to observed actions of fact, not my log in eye judgments. It may be what the Holy Spirit wants me to do. If not, he has shown many times in my life that he knows how to discipline me. Thank You Jesus!
I agree I am a hybrid christian. I adore LCMS communion doctrine. I live my baptism daily and was sprinkled as a baby. I see no need to be baptized again. I, as a Lutheran, place much emphasis on God's Grace and none on my works or common sense. The sanctified Lutheran life taught by #P4 is fabulous! My other pastors focused on Justification. I love contemporary or page 5 and 15 worship. I love Lutheran hymns. I know of no other place to worship or group I would rather be with in my community than my orthodox Lutheran group shepherded by Pastor P#4. Pastor P#4 is very gracious with my views on matters we disagree on. I have not been called to preach.
All observed actions of fact, unless you were in on all of them, are colored by the log in your eye, and become less fact, more preception. Your bias has been manifest from the beginning, it is a little late to play detached observer or to put your ax back in the shed.
If there is a book it may be nonfiction
If you cast about the same accusations, you better get insurance for the libel suits.
is part of the checking with him process.
Really, so I guess the instructions you should have got from Him already as a professed Christian are now void for this book, as you await new ones. You may need to test this spirit of yours. He may not be preaching new gospel, but he has rescinded the Law for you for this important work.
Please tell me what you think this means. It isn't evident on this thread, or in this vanity.
much emphasis…my.. common sense
Very obvious.
I have not been called to preach.
Something else for me to render thanks unto God for His mercy and grace.
Very true, Our memory is distorted after 30 seconds. If there is a book it will be my POV and my experience and my story.
Is it OK for me to say OJ is a murderer? I would say no because the jury found him innocent. Documented facts from the time will be key.
Your bias has been manifest from the beginning,
I agree, Has Yours? Why are you angry, xone, about my story?
My bias is for the truth. So yes my bias has shown. This story as previewed here seems to rely on innuendo. Facts have not been forthcoming that tie to accusations. One claims to be a hybrid Christian, and claims the LCMS as one of the origins of the hybrid, yet demonstrates a casual concern for outrageous statements, a casual attitude for factual positions of the LCMS when they are inconvenient to the book's theme. One claims to be Lutheran but demonstrate through words on FR that one is anything but. Alot of claims, without understanding what is claimed. Ignoring half of historical Lutheran teaching, one has got the Gospel right though by some of the statements that would be questionable, but ignore the Law. Luther compared the Law to a mirror where one could with the help of God, realize that they were sinful and needed a Savior. By some of the comments here, that mirror has been lain aside unused.
Why are you angry, xone, about my story?
If I appear angry, it is only because in cyberspace, anyone can claim anything, and to the casual reader you might stand forth as an example of the typical LCMS Lutheran. I want to convey to any lurkers that it would be erroneous to take that view. As I said before, I don't care about this story, or how it is framed by you. It will sell to those with the same bias and disregard for reality. Anecdotes don't reality make.
You said you wanted to converse with an LCMS'er for those 'hard' questions. While ignoring anything asked of you that you chose not to answer, you posit opinion about the questioner. I'm not angry, I am trying to be the one engaged in 'hard' questioning with someone who is uncooperative even though the questioning was their own idea. Evasiveness has no place in honest discourse.
What if there are, in fact, typical LCMS Lutherans and typical LCMS Pastors? Maybe my original bias was correct after all. What if P#4 is unique? What would a typical LCMS Lutheran Church do if Pastor P#4 did not meet their typical expectations?
One comment that he told me at the start of his ministry was that He did not want to be called a nice man. Also, He said he wanted to teach and preach so that the uncomfortable become comfortable and the comfortable become uncomfortable.
2 Timothy 3:1-9 New International Version (NIV) 1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. 6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
This is what I am asking about my local LCMS church and concerned it may be a systemic problem in the LCMS.
I believe there are, but following 'putting the best construction on everything' my observation would be: repentant sinners in need of and possessing a Savior for the laity, faithful preachers of God's Word as a repentant sinner in need of and possessing a Savior.
He said he wanted to teach and preach so that the uncomfortable become comfortable and the comfortable become uncomfortable.
Typical pastor minus the cool motto.
This is what I am asking about my local LCMS church and concerned it may be a systemic problem in the LCMS.
Here it goes again. You believe that the passage from Timothy describes LCMS, and find yourself comfortable saying it without knowledge of any doctrine that would support you. Are there such in an LCMS congregation? Statistically, probably, but you condemn 2 million plus based on your 'feeling'. I see you still have the mirror on the counter, unused.
concerned
How so, you have demonstrated a lack of knowledge of almost all things LCMS? Your pet peeve is your grindstone and because of it, the LCMS is "loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires" and "men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected."
But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
Wait, I think I've met one after all.
My best friend thinks a book needs to be written and he would help edit it. He has written several technical books. He is a neutral observer and not a member of the LCMS. My Pastor feels if that is what the Holy Spirit wants then I should not resist. It is primarily a story about my Pastor and his family and what we went through In the separation of the heterodox Lutherans (religious Pharisees) from us orthodox Lutherans who live by faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ. My Pastor is as Lutheran as they come BTW.
It has nothing to do with heresy or criminal behavior. It has much to do with the Pharisee inability to control him. The LCMS gets involved and it is not pretty.
As to writing a book, I have never done it. When I found 2 Lutherans on FR the idea came to start a dialog to see if a book is a good idea. I am still in that process. xone has been a champion for the LCMS in our discussion which may be a good thing. I do not know. I do not even know what the purpose for the book is. I could do it as fiction or nonfiction. I do not expect any of you to research what we have discussed this is just a gut check should I proceed or stop or stop doing it on FR? Maybe the Holy Spirit will tell my FRiends something. Thank You and God Bless you all.
I think Holy Spirit is well able to get His will across to you and you are well able to hear.
My own impression is go for it unless and until The Lord clearly blocks it . . . or it’s a done deal!
Is this split over doctrinal issues or issues of polity? Are the two subsets served by the same pastor, or has the first original called another pastor to serve? If so, no schism, two congregations. Can both congregations legitimately claim membership in the LCMS? If so, you don’t have a schism, you have a breakup of a congregation which while tragic, especially if the split causes recriminations, it isn’t unheard of. Schism sounds better, but depending on the answers, isn’t accurate.
In the separation of the heterodox Lutherans (religious Pharisees) from us orthodox Lutherans
What heterodox doctrines are you talking about, you’ve made the claim a few times, but provided no examples for this pretty serious (for conservative Lutherans anyway) charge.
xone has been a champion for the LCMS in our discussion which may be a good thing. I do not know.
If I have been a champion of anything, it would be for the truth of the matter. The LCMS doesn’t need me to champion it, but the vague nature of your church’s ‘problem’ does seem to need someone to seek objective truth.
Maybe the Holy Spirit will tell my FRiends something
Are you using the Holy Spirit as some kind of magic ‘8-ball’ or crystal ball to divine your future discourse on FR? If the Holy Spirit was indeed involved directly in this matter, it would have quickly become apparent long ago. As I mentioned before, there are other spirits out there that like to ‘move’ and ‘influence’ Christians. Have you bothered to test this one? Or do you assume the Holy Spirit is at work? Since you are the only one who knows your intentions, you’ll have to do it. By some of your comments and disregard for the 8th Commandment and its meaning from the Lutheran doctrine, it doesn’t seem as if God is involved in this at all as far as coaxing you to do anything.
Write the story or don’t, fiction or nonfiction, it doesn’t matter, what does matter is its purpose. Will it glorify the Lord or marbren, will it edify the body or get your name out as an author? Will it be objectively true, or be true to you because you lived it and your 'truth' is subjective based on your feelings?
One idea, just an idea, might be around the discussion as to the reason why main line American denominations, such as the LCMS, are dead. My experience could be a case study. People make these main line denominations are dead comments all the time. Now just because some denominations are dead does not mean God is dead. Obviously, some people in those denominations are not spiritually dead. I am talking about weeds and wheat. Maybe the weeds, religious Pharisees, are taking over.
To us born again believers, the wheat, it is all about the real moment to moment experienced relationship with Our Lord Jesus Christ. We abide in the vine. Die to self daily. This sanctified NOW relationship preaching and teaching is lacking in my experience with the LCMS. Not with P#4. RIM Pastor P#2 also was born again.
People are fearful of change.
You're entitled to your opinion, but where the Word of God is preached and the Sacraments administered rightly, there is life ideed. Your case study is all about YOU, and why with these offered, you have rejected them in favor of another gospel, and a different experience, one where you get an emotional high.
religious Pharisees, are taking over.
In other words, those who don't agree with you.
To us born again believers,
So those baptized by water and the Spirit are not born again? You know so little of salvation doctrine, but are satisified to gaze through your rapture rubik's cude to divine the day of the Lord.
Die to self daily.
This is the second time you have brought this up, and the second time I'll ask, what does this mean to you? Another claim, do you know what it means?
People are fearful of change.
And those abiding in the Lord don't need to 'change' to a situation to satisfy the 'itch' in our ears.
Tough questions eh? You've directly answered none of them and yet you do go on. LOL.
some denominations are dead does not mean God is dead.
Real insight, which god are you worshipping today? Your insight, your reason, your________(fill in the blank). This thread has been all about you, good luck with that.
Not with P#4. RIM Pastor P#2 also was born again.
Re-baptized? What? More importantly, how is it different than the latest infant baptized in your congregation?
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