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Posted on 05/30/2011 6:14:21 PM PDT by Salvation
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Thanks for posting this.
Thank you for stopping by. I think Barber is a superb teacher/professor.
That is a great argument. It also establishes how we venerate Mary and how we ask for intercession (vs mediation).
It is true that in Latin America there was a sort of conflation of “gods” and “saints” but in the long run, the reverence for saints is MECHANICS not THEOLOGY.
My FIL (in Mexico) makes it a point to thank St. Joseph (Patron Saint of Workers) and Francis of Assisi (we went to Real de Catorce and lit candles and prayed). That does not lessen his belief in, love for, and prayers to Christ as Our Savior.
Prayers are like love. You never run out and you have many channels to express.
**Prayers are like love. You never run out and you have many channels to express.**
A good way to put it.
Did you read the part one and part two posts so you know what he is trying to say and where he is trying to go with this?
He’s trying to establish a diaglogue to answer questions from a Protestant.
Did you read the part one and part two posts so you know what he is trying to say and where he is trying to go with this?
He’s trying to establish a dialogue to answer questions from a Protestant.
What is so terrible about that?
Exactly. And of course, there is no such basis.
I’m sorry that you do not believe the biblical examples given.
Do you have a specific reason, or is this just the anti-Catholic indoctrination into which you have fallen?
I pray for people all the time. I don’t see what is so terrible about that.
I think the next post that he makes will address whether the people who are in heaven can pray for us here on earth.
You wrote:
“The question is whether there is any Biblical basis for the notion of dead people praying for each other.”
Your premise is completely false. No orthodox Christian believes the saints in heaven are dead. Perhaps heretics believe that, but we don’t.
A great resource! Thanks.
From that:
The great Anglican writer and Christian apologist C.S. Lewis, in one of his last books, wrote:
“. . . devotions to saints . . . There is clearly a theological defense for it; if you can ask for the prayers of the living, why should you not ask for the prayers of the dead? I am not thinking of adopting the practice myself; and who am I to judge the practices of others?”
Do you have a specific reason, or is this just the anti-Catholic indoctrination into which you have fallen?
I said nothing of the kind.
I pray for people all the time. I don’t see what is so terrible about that.
Show me where I said anything remotely resembling that. I actually said very nearly the opposite - I don't think there is anyone who thinks it's a bad thing for us to pray for one another.
I think the next post that he makes will address whether the people who are in heaven can pray for us here on earth.
I'll be interested to read it. In the meantime, how about not distorting things I say?
As St. Paul says, when we die, Charity alone remains. The communion of saints is a communion of love, which is never interrupted. We can pray FOR those with us, those who went before us, and those who come after us.
In general, we as Catholics are asked not to pray TO anyone who is not canonized, since we do not know whether they are in heaven or in some other place.
But saints in heaven, recognized by the Church as examples of heroic virtue and confirmed by verified miracles, are very free to pray for us. So we should not hesitate to ask them for insight, guidance, and grace from the Redeemer. He is a King after all, and fully capable of delegating tasks to those under His dominion, who are bound by holy obedience and love to His Will.
Peace on St. Joan of Arc’s feast day!!
I think you are taking the poster too literally when “dead people” is used. I read it as “people that have died” and in the context of the discussion that would make them the “saints in Heaven”.
Anyway, that is how I took it.
I am asking you questions to try to facilitate some sort of exchange between us.
When you think of your grandmother in heaven, do you think of her lying in a casket, or is she waiting at the gates ready to greet you. If your grandmother has not passed away, perhaps you can put some other relative in there.
It has been proven with testimonies from people who have survived near death experiences that their relatives are all there to greet them, but they are sent back to earth for some reason since they do not die.
Have you ever heard of NDEs?
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