Posted on 06/29/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
After St. Peter died upside down on a cross in the Circus of Caligula and Nero, the surviving Christians obtained his body and buried him quickly nearby, on the steeply sloping Vatican Hill to the north of the Circus. That hill had become a makeshift graveyard four months earlier after the fire of Rome had killed so many residents of the metropolis that their loved ones began to use any open spot they could find on the roadsides radiating outside the city. . . .
When the tropaion of Peter was found underneath the high altar during archaeological escavations in 1941, there was great rejoicing, because it matched what Gaius had written at the end of the second century. Even more exciting was the fact that they found bones in what was clearly Peter’s tomb underneath the victory monument.
(Excerpt) Read more at integratedcatholiclife.org ...
It's amusing that you ignored not only my posting to you about this, but also the very words from the CCC that you posted.
The CCC has the articles (previously posted) that indicate that there is the possibility of salvation outside of the Church - only that Christ has not chosen to elaborate on it.
If you think that you can weasel your way into salvation on weasel words, then feel free to utilize them on your Judgement Day. Or else, you can tell Jesus that His Church is unable to do what He charged them to do. Have at it, and good luck to you.
I just quoted to you the catechism that states ALL authority for salvation comes through the RCC. Re Read the bold sections.
It says through, based upon Scripture and the words of Our Lord. Not by, as you intimated. Re read the Gospels for further illumination.
As I find so often, non Catholics want to separate Peter and Peter’s faith, as if that is even possible.
Peter is named rock by God, who only changes the names of people that He has great plans for in His salvation of our souls. That faith that Peter had was a gift from God, Jesus says “Blessed are you because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.”
God gave to Peter the faith he would need to be strong in the face of the persecution and doubts that would come once Jesus was crucified, rose and ascended to heaven.
The passage you quote from the catechism does not contradict that Peter is the first leader of the church, given that charge by Jesus and the faith he would need by God.
So non Catholics can say the Rock is Jesus, the rock is Peter’s confession or whatever. The truth is that it is all of the above.
Jesus leads His church, through the Holy Spirit.
I believe that Christ is the cornerstone and Peter, by his faith, is the rock upon which Christ founded His church.
One at a time.
The pope is called the servant of the servants of God. He serves the church not himself, all that he has for his use does not belong to him.
No one says they are of the pope. We are God’s children, brothers and sisters of Christ and it is Christ whom we worship and serve.
Christ’s church has certainly been divided, but not by us.
The rest is simply Paul explaining his call and gifts for the church, the body of Christ as well as his concern that certain of the faithful were aligning themselves with certain Apostles and not adhering to the one faith those Apostles preached. It does not mean anything else.
Never in the New Testament is salvation contingent upon belonging to an organized institution. The RCC has placed itself between Christ and the people and will be punished for it.
I did not ignore that verse, we are discussing Peter, the fact that his name was changed to rock and what that means.
Now the passage is obscure? I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian can’t I just read it and instantly understand it?
No one says that Peter was the only Apostle that received the binding and loosing as we see in the Gospel of John, when Jesus appeared in the upper room, He says a similar thing when He tells those there, “Whatever you forgive will be forgiven, and whatever you do not forgive, will not be forgiven.”
It is however, only to Peter that He gives the keys of the kingdom. And it is only to Peter that God revealed the truth of who Jesus is.
No, they believe that Christians are subjects of the church with Christ as the head.
BTW, still no answer for me in your own words? That’s okay, I can wait.
The Church claims nothing for herself that was not given to her by Christ.
In John Jesus says, “As the Father sent me, so I send you.”
God, through His Son Jesus has established His Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit.
He made this choice so that all people could hear and know of Jesus and come to believe in Him and be saved.
Everything anyone knows about Jesus came to them through the Church, His Church.
The Church has been ENTRUSTED with the fullness of His grace and truth to the extent that God wishes it to be.
Yes, ALL of it comes through the Church by the will of God.
James agrees with Peter who proclaimed that God had revealed to him that the Gentiles were to be included in the message.
Yep, Peter knew it first. :)
No where in that post did I say that Peter picked any Apostle.
Read it again.
It says that Peter calls for a replacement and then Judas is replaced.
Don’t wait for me dear. I quoted scripture which says that God is the Rock but you RCC folks insist on replacing Him with Peter. My words would never do.
Copping out eh?
got it:)
I’m near 63 years old dear. Been down this road more times then I care to remember. Those who are tied to an organization rather then to Christ alone need the earthly ties and I’ve become convinced that it’s futile on my part.
That’s okay, I forgive you :)
I am tied to Christ through the Church, in fact I receive Him in the Eucharist every time I attend Mass. It is the greatest blessing I could ever hope for.
I too sometimes feel that it is futile, though I do enjoy the debate.
It is up to the Holy Spirit as we both know.
I belong to Jesus Christ directly.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
You've been at this long enough to know . . .
any time you use "<" or ">" in a posting window, you will automatically trigger the html function. The result--
WITHOUT PROPER HTML CODING
WILL BE TO LUMP EVERYTHING INTO ONE UNREADABLE MASS OF TEXT WHICH EVERYONE WILL SCROLL RAPIDLY BY . . . some with unkind thoughts going through their minds.
Your choice is to:
1. take ALL the html triggering codes and symbols out--sometimes time consuming and tricky--or
2. code paragraphs properly with < p > without spaces between the "p" and the carets.
Anyway--I don't think I have it in me to try and decipher your mass of text for you tonight.
I *THINK* I agree with what I can read of your post, though.
LUB
Nope, unlike unitarians, even “biblical unitarians”, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior. Do you dispute that Jesus who we Christians (as opposed to unitarians) consider God, doesn’t mean it when he renames someone?
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