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The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: These Words are the Word of God [Ecumenical]
RC.net ^ | 1994-website | Origen, 185-254

Posted on 09/19/2011 4:49:23 PM PDT by Salvation

The early church Fathers on the Scriptures
These words are the Word of God
by Origen, c. 185-254

The Scriptures that prophesy about Christ, the words that announce his coming and his teaching are inspired by God.  They were proclaimed with power and authority and it is for this reason they have conquered so many people's hearts.

However, only with the coming of Christ have the divine character of the prophetic writings and the spiritual meaning of the books of the Mosaic Law become apparent.  Before Christ it was not possible t produce decisive arguments for the inspiration of the Old Testament.  The coming of Jesus persuaded even the doubtful that those pages were written under the influence of grace.

Whoever reads the Prophets carefully will be convinced that they are no human achievement.  The reader will understand the meaning of divine inspiration.

As far as the books of the Mosaic Law are concerned, a veil has been drawn between their brightness and people's understanding.  The coming of Jesus has made that light shine in such a way that I has become possible to recognize clearly those future benefits at which the literal meaning of those books only hinted. (Cf. 2 Cor. 3:12-18; Heb. 10:1).

It would take a long time to review the ancient prophecies of events that would be realized int he future.  But someone in doubt who did this would be struck by their divine character.  He would give up all his uncertainty and dedicate himself to he Word of God with all his soul.

(Translation by Thomas Spidlik, Drinking from the Hidden Fountain: A Patristic Breviary, Cistercian Publications, Kalamazoo, MI - Spencer, MASS, 1994)



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; scripture
“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” 
Jerome, c. 347-420

1 posted on 09/19/2011 4:49:28 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Working to finish a short series on the Early Church Fathers and Scripture that I started before I broke my arm.

Catholic Ping.


2 posted on 09/19/2011 4:52:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: These Words are the Word of God [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Two Meanings of the Bible [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Guide to the Discovery of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Every page of the Bible is a Hymn to Christ [Ecumenical]

The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Four Gospels [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Scriptures are one book in Christ [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on Scripture: The Nourishing Bread of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Reading Scripture with the Early Church Fathers [Ecumenical]
Fathers of the Church
Abortion and the Early Church [Fathers] (Catholic & Orthodox Caucus)
Why do Catholics always talk about the Early Church Fathers (Apostolic Fathers)?[Ecumenical]
The Church Fathers' Marian Interpretation of the Old Testament (Catholic Caucus)
Writings of the Fathers of the Church
THE CHURCH FATHERS: A DOOR TO ROME (fundamentalist warns saying they sound too Catholic)

Were the Church Fathers Closer to Protestantism Than to Catholicism?
The Faith of Our Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on the Assumption [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Look to the Church Fathers to Shed Light on Modern Problems, Writes the Pope
Origen: The Privileged Path to Knowing God Is Love
On Origen of Alexandria: He Was a True Teacher (April 25, 2007)
St. Clement of Alexandria: One of the Great Promoters of Dialogue Between Faith and Reason (April 18, 2007)
St. Irenaeus of Lyons: The First Great Theologian of the Church (March 28, 2007)
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)

Truly a Doctor of Unity (St. Ignatius of Antioch) (March 14, 2007)
On St. Clement of Rome -The Church Has a Sacramental, Not Political Structure (March 7, 2007)
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Contraception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers

3 posted on 09/19/2011 4:56:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Before Christ it was not possible t produce decisive arguments for the inspiration of the Old Testament.

I'm not sure I would agree with this statement. The Jews were exceptionally careful to copy the scriptures down exactly as it had been given. One would think that if there was some concern as to whether the Torah was inspired, the Jews would not have gone through the trouble. The issue wasn't so much whether the writings were inspired. Rather it was the interpretation of the writings (which we still have today).

4 posted on 09/19/2011 5:02:19 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

Catholics, however, hold to the belief that ALL scripture is divinely inspired. I think Protestants do too.


5 posted on 09/19/2011 5:14:34 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

How is your arm doing now?


6 posted on 09/19/2011 5:56:26 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Another Maryland girl for Palin in 2012)
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To: Bigg Red

I’ve been typing without the wrist brace all afternoon. Even did a Publisher document to thank everyone for their support of the Ministry Fair that I recently co-chaired.


7 posted on 09/19/2011 6:52:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: HarleyD
And believing its inspiration does not prevent both liberal RCs as well as lib Prots from doing things such as relegating historical accounts to fables and folk tales, as the approved commentary on the New American Bible (not NASB) does
8 posted on 09/19/2011 7:15:24 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212

You talk about historical accounts and folk tales and fables. Care to explain?


9 posted on 09/19/2011 7:21:06 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Why not read it and then ask questions, and see if the NAB in this regard is consistent with how the NT treats such, and even how conservative RCS overall see them?


10 posted on 09/19/2011 7:55:58 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212; Salvation
I remember those footnotes years ago. Some liberal Catholics put dumb footnotes in that bible. I think that is what he is pointing out.

The Bishop's list the bible but not the footnotes on their website. The person who your are quoting is a famous ant-cathoic apologist. Dave Armstrong has counter arguements against him.

11 posted on 09/19/2011 8:16:33 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: johngrace

Oh boy! My spelling is terrible. I am tired. I am going to bed. Good night.


12 posted on 09/19/2011 8:20:59 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: Salvation

Praise be to God!


13 posted on 09/20/2011 5:48:06 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Another Maryland girl for Palin in 2012)
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To: Salvation
I'm a Protestant, and I've found the Fathers to be very powerful commentators and theologians. I especially enjoy St. John Chrysostom, controversial though some may find him, and-of course-St. Augustine.

But any of the Fathers are like a breath of clear, fresh air compared to the majority of what passes for God-talk these days. Anyone who talks smack on them hasn't read them.

14 posted on 09/20/2011 6:45:07 AM PDT by jboot
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To: johngrace

>The Bishop’s list the bible but not the footnotes on their website. The person who your are quoting is a famous ant-cathoic apologist. Dave Armstrong has counter arguements against him.<

Actually, I see the footnotes on the web site, such as

“The Red Sea: the traditional translation, cf. Septuagint and other Versions; but the Hebrew literally means “sea of reeds” or “reedy sea,” which could probably be applied to a number of bodies of shallow water, most likely somewhat to the north of the present deep Red Sea.” (http://www.usccb.org/bible/ex/10:19)

As for the 2nd statement and attempting to attribute this exposure to an anti-Catholic, in this section i am not quoting Jason, if that is who you are referring to, but the NAB itself, which i found by myself when reading it, as well as referencing an RC source which likewise is critical of the NAB. This is a more comprehensive criticism by RCA Ben Douglass (once VP at Robert Sungenis’s CAI, but who later split) but apparently it is no longer retrieval at the Internet archive i linked to, but i actually found it on FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1179305/posts and is also on the web site of Armstrong himself: http://www.pugiofidei.com/NAB.htm

More here: http://www.bible-researcher.com/links09.html

Many in RC scholarship is in the same league, but which is not limited to them, as mainline Protestants is marked by such as well. “Hath God said.”


15 posted on 09/20/2011 8:35:55 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212
Interesting! The enemy of our souls works hard at times. I remember when reading certain bibles in the footnotes that it would compare other creation acounts to almost nullify its true meaning. When I was young I remember talking to my faithful mother about this subject.

I did not see that level as much in NAB as I did years ago. Thanks for sharing.

16 posted on 09/20/2011 11:10:15 AM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: jboot
You will love this on the Gospels!

http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php

17 posted on 09/20/2011 11:17:12 AM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: johngrace

http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php


18 posted on 09/20/2011 11:18:31 AM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: daniel1212

The Holy Father himself is buckling against the historical-critical method. The problem with the commentators. They think they should have the final word about the meaning of Scripture. The Holy Father says, not so fast. His volumes on Jesus have met with dismissive remarks from the confraternity of Biblical schools. He has said, that my word—as Joseph Ratzinger—is not final either. But as pope he is saying—and this they must accept—that one must approach the Bible as a believer, or one will not understand what the Bible is truly saying. You MUST be open to the Holy Spirit, or all the tools of scholarship will not help you discern the truth.


19 posted on 09/20/2011 11:25:28 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: jboot

Luther and Calvin also relied on the Fathers, although they did not put as much stock in their authority as Catholics did. Both Reformers and the Catholic theologian Jansen put too much stress on Augustine’s views, and not enough on those of the Greek Fathers.


20 posted on 09/20/2011 11:30:57 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: johngrace

That is very useful! Thank you.


21 posted on 09/20/2011 1:26:26 PM PDT by jboot
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To: RobbyS
No theological school-Catholic or Protestant-can afford to ignore Patristics. If nothing else the Fathers are the root and foundation of New Testament commentary (and of course much more, but I am making a minimalist argument). Unfortunately many ignore them, or worse.

As for the Greek Fathers, without St. Athanasius we would not have the Nicene creed; that is no small thing. We owe him a debt at least as big as that which we owe to Augustine. An Arian church would have been every bit as unrecognizable as a Pelagian church.

22 posted on 09/20/2011 1:44:51 PM PDT by jboot
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To: Salvation
I would probably say every person who is a Christian believes in the inspiration and infallibility of scripture. I would equally say that a person who does not believe in the inspiration and infallibility of scripture should look to their salvation.

I just found Origen's statement:

Before Christ it was not possible to produce decisive arguments for the inspiration of the Old Testament.

rather curious. Origen at times held some strange views but this was not uncommon for the early church fathers who were trying to piece together their theology into a coherent understanding. But I would have thought the early fathers would have recognized the inspiration of the Old Testament was well established by our Jewish fathers before the time of Christ. I suspect Origen is saying something that simply is not clicking with me.

23 posted on 09/20/2011 3:47:00 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: johngrace

A honest reply John, and i have debated at least one RC apologist here who holds to the liberal school.


24 posted on 09/21/2011 5:14:19 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212

I just read some of your homepage. Just think if we could have today a fast like Lincoln declared.


25 posted on 09/21/2011 6:01:01 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: johngrace

Just think if we could have a President at least like Lincoln, who would faint if he read the Revealing Statistics page above that one, quantifying costs of the War against God.

But until the born again evangelical church seeks God like once did, rather than being at ease in Zion - and i need to do more - then the country is doomed. But the body of Christ and the country are not the same thing, and the latter can go to dust while a remnant shall be saved


26 posted on 09/21/2011 6:08:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212

The real revival will start after natural chaos or war in USA. I am sad to believe will be our true path in this america. Soon.


27 posted on 09/21/2011 6:20:04 PM PDT by johngrace (1 John 4)
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To: johngrace

I almost wrote that in my response.

Pertinent texts:

“I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.” (Hosea 5:15)

“Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him.4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.” (Hosea 8:3-4)

“I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.” (Hosea 8:12)

“And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan.” (2 Chronicles 34:15)

“Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes.” (2 Chronicles 34:18-19)

“Go, enquire of the Lord for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the Lord that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the Lord, to do after all that is written in this book.” (2 Chronicles 34:21)

The scriptures are the supreme standard for truth and obedience, but America (we) has turned to lying vanities, forsaking her own mercy. (cf. Jonah 2:8)


28 posted on 09/21/2011 6:49:44 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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