Skip to comments.Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches
Posted on 01/02/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
While there was nothing doctrinally new in the document,
The most powerful man in the RCC denomination reduced to fodder by one of the most published and common anthologies of all time.
Ummmm. Can I believe what my wife who was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools and still attends mass weekly, says?
Me: “Do Catholics worship Mary?”
Wife: “Is this some kind of trick question?
Me: “No, some Catholics on FreeRepublic are saying Catholics don’t venerate Mary.”
Wife: “Then they aren’t really Catholics.”
Excuse me? YHVH says that prayer such as that of the Catholic sinners prayer holy Mary, mother of god is idol worship and in it there is nothing but foolishness. FYI...the Catholic Mary is NOT the mother of YHVH, Elohiym. She may be the mother of some god, but it is NOT the One True God of all creation. To imply this is to imply she existed before YHVH Elohiym. Fact, the Catholic church changed ALL of YHVH's instructions for assembly and replaced them with their own. They admit it, they are proud of it. Catholic the one true ecclesia of YHVH? That is just put right no true.
Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of Church with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?
According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called Churches in the proper sense.”
“the absence of the sacramental priesthood”
Priests bringing man to God via sacraments, versus:
But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins for ever, took his seat at Gods right hand, from that time offering no more sacrifice, but waiting until his enemies be made his footstool. For by virtue of that one offering he has perfected for all time every one whom he makes holy. The Holy Spirit himself endorses this truth for us, when he says, first: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.
17 And then, he adds, Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.
18 Where God grants remission of sin there can be no question of making further atonement.”
Or as put in Matthew:
“But Jesus gave one more great cry, and died. And the sanctuary curtain in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom.”
“News at 11 - denominations without apostolic succession lack apostolic succession.”
News at 11:30 - turns out the Bible has no instructions for Apostolic succession - except casting lots. Inside investigation reveals no church on earth uses the Biblical example!
wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.
1. Regard with great respect; revere.
Your wife is correct. Catholics who say they do not VENERATE the Virgin Mary are not truly Catholic. However, no Catholic on FR is saying they don't venerate Mary. Catholics are saying we do not WORSHIP Mary.
Such a tragedy. I sure wish I could have seen it.
~ Oscar Wilde on Great Mormon-Catholic War
Check this out:
LOL. Right along with Hitler, Ann Frank, Che, Buddy Holly, and Elvis.
I guess I will have to go buy an indulgence.
Because Christ's church continues to the present day and passes to Peter's successors. If Jesus had intended the church to be dismantled after Peter died, he would have said so.
Lets take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]
Ill use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.
we cast ourselves into your arms
1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)
confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)
O crystal fountain of faith
Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the fountain of faith for Catholics)
Lily of all holiness
1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, all holiness is given to Mary)
Conqueress of evil and death
Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)
Convert the wicked
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)
Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri .......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus..... She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help
Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.
Under the common definition of venerate, Catholics in fact do that: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venerate
Catholics venerate Mary, but they do not worship her.
“If I were to get really obnoxious I would ask you to provide proof of your ministers absolute succession by ordination to Christ himself.”
Go ahead and get obnoxious. What does scripture say?
7-8 Naturally there are different gifts and functions; individually grace is given to us in different ways out of the rich diversity of Christs giving. As the scripture says: When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men...
11-13 His gifts to men were varied. Some he made his messengers, some prophets, some preachers of the Gospel; to some he gave the power to guide and teach his people. His gifts were made that Christians might be properly equipped for their service...” - Ephesians
” 3-8 As your spiritual teacher I give this piece of advice to each one of you. Dont cherish exaggerated ideas of yourself or your importance, but try to have a sane estimate of your capabilities by the light of the faith that God has given to you all. For just as you have many members in one physical body and those members differ in their functions, so we, though many in number, compose one body in Christ and are all members of one another. Through the grace of God we have different gifts. If our gift is preaching, let us preach to the limit of our vision. If it is serving others let us concentrate on our service; if it is teaching let us give all we have to our teaching; and if our gift be the stimulating of the faith of others let us set ourselves to it. Let the man who is called to give, give freely; let the man who wields authority think of his responsibility; and let the man who feels sympathy for his fellows act cheerfully.” - Romans
It is GOD who gives the gift of preaching, or makes a man an Apostle (a la Paul).
Good. Pope is right
Exactly, this is nothing new.
I don’t know why RN7 is posting this article as if it was written today when it from an article in 2007.
Whenever I post a thread here I put the date of the article
Oh, you would bring that up. Ha!
That’s ok. I don’t need some guy living in utter luxury in palaces, wearing fine clothes, eating fine food, only spending his time with the finest of people to tell me whether or not I’m right with God.
This one I know. The answer is "No."
Galileo was honored more than once by the Vatican. he was free to explore a heliocentric hypothesis.
However, a logical consequence of the heliocentric hypothesis is parallax. That is the position of a planet, for example, compared to the position of the "fixed stars" behind it, should be different, all other things being equal, in June from what it would be in December.
And this consequence has been verified, after the development of instruments subtle enough to measure it.
BUT in the time of Galileo there was no measurable difference. So Galileo was told he could not say his theory was definitely true. He was welcome to explore it and to publish his explorations. He just couldn't say it was true because there was no proof.
he not only was allowed to 'suggest' that the earth was not the center of the universe, he received public Vatican honors for the suggestion.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
Then why do all these protestant churches elect leaders to be spokesman for their church? Where in the Bible does it say that there's a "Office of the President of the Southern Baptist Convention". Did Jesus give Bryant Wright that authority? Seems pretty "unbiblical" to me. If they believe in the "same authority of all believers", then all 16.7 million members of the SBC ought to be voting on what their denomination says, not this guy.
Not sure I understand the argument. Essentially EVERYTHING Jesus said was to the Jews and not to us. So are you saying none of it applies to us? If so, which parts of the New Testament apply to all of us and which parts apply to only some of us?
No, I am correctly interpreting the 1st century writings. When they speak f Scripture, the only Scripture they had was Moses (Torah) and the Prophets. So to claim that there is any new doctrine when the 1st century writings do not expound on it as in put it in writing as had been done in the beginning is pure blasphemy. In the beginning YHVH told us that what was given was for ever, that He never changes, that His doctrine has never changed and that neither is it burdensome. So if church doctrine says that YHVH changed His mind, changed His doctrine yet YHVH never had it written down for everyone to see and read, that doctrine is nothing but heresy and is to be rebuked
John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. 18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."
Main stream Christian doctrine claims Messiah brought a new doctrine. Messiah says otherwise. I'll take his word over man any day since he was the "WORD" of God that has been from the beginning.
(Hint: look at the picture.)
The feeling is mutual.
So I should care about the pope's opinion for what reason again?
LOL! gotta love that mormon tank!
You heard it here first, folks, that RnMomof7 really wants Protestants & Catholics to get along. She was working so hard at it. If only Pope Benedict XVI hadn't reiterated something he had already mentioned years ago.
May the Lord have mercy on us all.
Me neither. But that doesn’t describe the real Pope, in the real universe, in the present time.
AMEN - Christianity: Follower of Christ, not men - AMEN
Are you saying those are not false religions?
I’m not seeing what the passage Matthew 16:18-19 has to do with a photo of John Paul II kissing a Quran. Makes as much sense as someone quoting the 10 commandments and me posting a photo of Jimmy Swaggart crying in response.
Thank you. I saved it so I don’t have bother you again.
Read the thread.
RnMom posted it there.
Could you develop that assertion? I don't see the connection.
Nope, that one doesnt do it. Not by a long shot.
If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.
Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
I did. You must be seeing things.
So Peter's line flows right up to the Paul, the koran kisser?
How dare you slander someone you don’t know and obviously don’t have the brains to understand? I will pray for the souls of all of the heretic followers of the perderast failed monk who spawned all of your self (not “bible”) centered worship groups who all seek to carry the mantle of the church entrusted to Peter like little kids who look up to the big teenager on the block.
Go home and read your bible as the Holy Father’s words obviously are too subtle for you.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
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