But that FACT is NOT faith building; so we ignore it.
I may not understand everything MORMON, but, by golly, I sure BELIEVE it!)
Posted on 01/30/2012 9:31:42 AM PST by Colofornian
MORmONS come up with the most insane idiocy, and then they expect others to believe it because they say so, then they get offended when others dont. LDS INC has been working very hard to keep this video blocker and off of youtube because it helps shows just how stupid MORmON claims really
But to use the word "Satan" in addressing another Freeper individually is "making it personal." And the Religion Forum guideline is:
Do you always go around corporately pointing fingers at people? (Or just this thread?)
(Be nice to know who's angry? Which posters/posts? And why you're superimposing motives upon complete strangers you don't know)
...people here...
Again, which people? You know, when you shotgun unkind criticisms at a broad target, you hit a lot of people. (That's not exactly good manners 'cause it casts a broad net)
You'll note this thread is about a given "issue" -- the reliability of whether the Book of Mormon is based upon real gold plates or not.
Instead of sticking to the issues, you've chosen to go on the attack vs. unnamed poster(s)...hurling accusations of anger, vitriol, attacking.
...attacking them with vitriol is not Christs way.
Well, again, which poster is being vitriolic? Which post? Which words? Why is it you unfairly shotgun everybody in this thread with whom you might disagree -- but you're somehow under no accountability to be responsible with your words?
If you hunted the way you wrote this post, look out! (Please, leave the shotgun at home when you go hunting)
Now, once we establish which post(s) you're referencing, may I suggest you then also establish why Jesus was similarly "wrong" to speak in some of the "ways" He did...
I mean...hypothetically thinking this out...I can't think of more caustic critiques coming from somebody's lips than to call someone...
..."children of the devil" -- to the religious legalistic Pharisees (John 8);
...whitewashed tombstones, vipers, and making "twice the son of hell" proselytes (to the Pharisees, Matthew 23), etc.
Now I haven't seen that done on this thread...so you'll have to enlighten us as to which posts you're referencing...and if also don't appreciate Christ's words (which you could similarly interpret), perhaps you should just take some scissors to John 8 & Matt. 23 and be consistent about it...or, when you get to heaven, you can direct your accusations to Christ face-to-face about that perceived "vitriol."
I'm friends with a few Mormons, and I tell you if I were to say anything close to what people here are saying about Mormonism to them not only would it drive a wedge between me and them, but more importantly, it would drive a further wedge between Christ and them.
And I'm a direct descendent of Mormons; a relative of many Mormons; in good relational terms with many Mormons; have never been upset with any of them relationally...so while you are good friends with some Mormons, if you're upset with some Christians on this thread...Mormons are your friends, but those Christians are your brothers and sisters and we're called upon in many places to be in harmony with one another within the Body of Christ...to have the shared Mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2), and not judge people inwardly...(superimposing feelings of "anger," for example...) 1 Sam. 16:7 reminds us that ONLY God sees the inside of a person...so not sure when you became an anger management expert of complete strangers you've had no conversations with...
Now, IF...
...this is all simply a matter of you lacking basic Biblical discernment...
...that Christ treated religious legalists distinctly than, say, the woman at the well...
...IF you lack basic Biblical discernment that the apostle Paul and Apollos treated legalistic Jews in synagogues in Acts 17, Acts 18, Acts 19 than Paul treated the polytheists on Mars Hill in Acts 17...
...then, hey, don't take that out on unnamed posters doing unspecific things. Please don't accuse generic posters of doing "unChristlike" things just 'cause you've tended to avoid applying passages like John 8, Matthew 23, part of Acts 17, Acts 18, Acts 19, Jude 3, 2 Cor. 10:3-5; Titus 1:9-10, etc. to your own worldview of religious legalists.
...not only would it drive a wedge between me and them, but more importantly, it would drive a further wedge between Christ and them.
Well, please show me where your "further wedge" theology is Biblical. I'm always "up" to learn more about the Bible; and I've got my own "blindsides." (One or two examples, please)
When I look at the Bible, it tends to define people as either...
...being in darkness or in light (not being in "half-light");
...being born once or twice (not in the middle -- 1.5 times);
...being spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1-3; Luke 9:60) or being alive in Christ (not halfway spiritually resuscitated);
...confessing Christ (1 Cor. 12:3) or rejecting Him (John 3:18) -- not some religious legalistic in-between roller-coaster).
The religiously legalistic, per Jesus, tend to have a distinct father per John 8. The legalists vigorously protested Jesus' conclusion, essentially saying they were in no way spiritual bastards. Jesus didn't tolerate such a position.
Tell you what...were you to show some consistency in any way, I suppose you could accuse Jesus of driving "further wedges" among some possible "seeker-sensitive" Pharisees, eh?
For example, in the last part of John 6 -- like John 6:50-59 -- Jesus for the first time introduced the concept of eating His body and blood of Christ. 'Twas a very difficult truth to absorb that Jesus gave in that synagogue -- to the point that they reacted with extreme negativity: "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” 61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this...66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him."
Rather than go with your "further wedge" approach about not wanting to chase anybody on the fringe further away, Jesus simply let them go: 67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
Did Jesus simply fail to understand in advance your "further wedge" approaches? Will you lecture Him, too, on these matters when you get to heaven?
Norm, I appreciate your constant civil tone on these threads.
Yet with this post, you're now doing what vpintheak did on that last post I addressed him...You're engaging in vague shotgun comments toward unknown posters.
How can any poster correct what is deemed aberrant behavior if that poster or posters don't know what comments are objectionable?
So...who are you accusing of engaging in bad manners? Why? Which phrases?
Take a breath, and a good one word summary to your post would be “no”. FReep on
"insane idiocy" and "MORmON". I can just feel the love of Christ oozing for your fellow man there. Is it in your Bible where Jesus called those who were incorrect about Him and the Father, insane or morons? It sure isn't in mine. You are wrong, and you are attempting to use the Bible to justify your anger and dislike for people. You sir will be judged for that unless you repent. I am no angel, but I know wrong when I see it, as a matter of fact, it is a spiritual gift of mine, discernment.
T.P. came up with the same "MORMoN" angle in post #76.
I simply responded in post #78 to T.P.: For those that keep claiming that Mormons are not being attacked here, just take a look at the format of the thread title, paying attention to the uppercase letters. The insinuation here is that some alteration of the original headline has occurred. Sorry, the headline was cut & pasted - as is; now perhaps T.P. is simply claiming that the original you tube poster is "attacking" Mormons...but...he added the word "here" -- implying some alteration was done. In that sense, T.P. has unfairly engaged in assigning motives to me that is not in any way backed up by the evidence.
T.P. then apologized in post #94 -- something you could learn from somebody who defends Mormonism: I now see that you were quoting. Indeed, my claim was unfair. Apology tendered. (T.P. Pole)
I'll be 100% up front: I watched the You Tube demonstration and NEVER noticed any intentional headline CAPS doctoring til T.P. brought it up. (In fact, if you read my post #81, you would see with all your "brilliant" "discernment" skills, that I was actually still clueless about any CAPS "distinct meaning" in the headline and any assigned underlying meaning).
I've seen PLENTY of liberal headlines from liberal MSM sources placed on FR...I suppose you're going to castigate EVERY single thread-poster as being guilty of being the editor who wrote the headline, eh? (But my guess is -- you won't; because your standards appear to be typically two-faced and hypocritical)
As for even the copy by this You Tube poster ("insane idiocy")...I admit I didn't vet that...I watched the You Tube for the vid clip...Being in a hurry, I simply slapped a cut & paste to the copy & loaded the whole thing...(I mean, who goes to You Tube to read a graph written by the vid-clip poster?)...but again...standard-wise...are you going to be consistent?...are you going to hold every thread poster accountable for every single word written by a journalist or a blogger or You Tube contributor?
Really? Boy, will you be busy on FR...better give up your career now if you're going to start doing that!
T.P. recognized that thread posters are NOT the originators of headlines...you, sir, lack ANY basic discernment...
How sad...T.P. is either Lds or a close LDS ally...and he holds more basic discernment than you do!
...anger and dislike for people.
Well, hey, it's a religion forum...if you want to make it your ongoing biz to judge people inwardly...have at it...psycho-analyze complete strangers all you want...superimpose all the ill motives you wish...
My Mormon relatives and friends are wonderful people...spiritually confused...yet as I've repeatedly said on FR threads, they are of tremendous value to our Lord...
I've also repeatedly said that the apostle Paul mentioned that we don't fight vs. flesh and blood...our enemies are the forces of darkness.
So I don't consider Mormons -- or you -- an "enemy."
Falsehoods...deceptions...that's what we oppose...
ISMs can be separated and held up for derision...elsewise, we wouldn't have Psalms like Psalm 2, would we: 1 Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the LORD and against his anointed, saying, 3 “Let us break their chains and throw off their shackles.” 4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.
By your logic, the Lord's ridicule of conspiracy-ISMs is an "attack" upon certain kings and rulers who should be embraced by your no "further wedge" theology!
can just feel the love of Christ oozing for your fellow man there. Is it in your Bible where Jesus called those who were incorrect about Him and the Father, insane or morons? It sure isn't in mine. You are wrong, and you are attempting to use the Bible to justify your anger and dislike for people. You sir will be judged for that unless you repent.
Tell you what, VP...read what the apostle Paul said about spiritual "wolves" he warned about in Acts 20:29-31:
"I know that after I leave, SAVAGE WOLVES will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Did you notice, VP, that Paul said he warned the church in Ephesus for three years night & day about these truth-distorters?
By reading the above, at least you're now equipped to properly preach, scold and lecture the apostle Paul when you get to heaven...
I can see that scenario now:
VpintheAk to the apostle Paul in heaven: "Paul, Let me speak the Truth in love to you...When you called those 'other shepherds' 'savage wolves'...Wow, Paul...I just felt the love of Christ oozing for your fellow man there...Was it in your Old Testament where God called those who were incorrect about Him 'savage wolves?' It sure isn't in mine. You are wrong, Paul, and you attempted to use that platform to justify your anger and dislike for people. I hope God hasn't judged you too harshly, Paul...or that you repented of that before you died."
VP, you may not have a shepherd's heart -- like the apostle Paul did...
...you may not care about truth distorters -- those who draw away disciples from the Christian churches in your area...
...nobody can force you to care...
...but at the very least, you could consider your role as a potential schismatic in trying to cause division within the Wider Body of Christ as you go on the attack and openly judge other Christians.
Some of the more strident Protestants might have similar thoughts regarding, say, the Catholic Church, with it's alleged "Goddess Mythology" and other supposed embellishments. (Catholics: this is not my opinion, I'm using it as an example of apparent intolerance between different religious groups.)
Just sayin', although I, too, would tend to consider Mormonism as a potentially more extreme case.
I have no doubt that there have been at least some US Presidents who were probably atheists, although they might have identified with some Christian denomination for political expediency.
Would a devout Mormon President be any worse than that?
I despise Romney's politics, but I do think that it is at least theoretically possible that a Mormon could be a moral President, despite the strange "additional" beliefs.
I've wrestled with the notion of some kind of litmus test relating to this issue and the US Presidency, and my current conclusion is that a Presidential candidate's stated policies are the primary consideration.
The reasons that I won't ever support Romney run far deeper than his Mormon beliefs...
Yup; just like Moses!
No one ever saw those stone tablets that were WRITTEN ON BY THE HAND OF GOD; either.
How about them TESTIMONIES up at post #39?
Wanna just IGNORE them, as usual?
But, we KNOW from HISTORY that he DID make REPLICAs of the 'caractors' on the 'plates', and they were PROVEN to be bogus!
The PROOF is right there in the IGNORED reply; #41.
And; when they DO become 'aware' of them; they only have a couple of choices:
Investigate or...
place head in sand.
And, if they investigate, they have a couple of choices:
Believe the FACTS that they've found out on their own,
or believe the SPIN put on the FACTS by all of those places that are NOT 'affiliated' with the LDS church in SLC.
If they DO choose to believe the FACTS as history has provided, they have a couple of choices:
Assume that ALL churchs lie, since their OWN chosen church did,
or to look to Jesus; the Author and Finisher of our faith.
This is MY heartfelt prayer!
Oh! I did for the LONGEST time; but my daughter just raved about it for years!
She ended up buying the DVD and loaning it to me so I just had to see what she was fired up about (since I had determined that I wasn't going to spend MY money to see it!).
It's a HOOT!!
Elsie the Second has just as goofy of a sense of humor as me, and yes; my chickens DO have large talons!
If you survived high school, this video will resonate with you!
Check out Utah State Fair advertisements of a few years back with 'Napolean'; doing the schilling...
MORMONism goes against CHRISTIANITY; so what's the beef?
Right next to the curelom display at the Smithsonian.
But that FACT is NOT faith building; so we ignore it.
I may not understand everything MORMON, but, by golly, I sure BELIEVE it!)
Have you 'come across' the OTHER writings of MORMONism?
They will assure you that your FAITH in MORMONism is misplaced, and you can leave it, knowing full well that your FAITH in Christ will carry you through the rough spots to come.
How do you mentally handle the conflicting FACTS that are shown in these threads?
Ok; just how do YOU speak to your 'friends' about the eventual resting place of their souls?
How would your 'message' change to them; if you knew they were to die in a car wreck tomorrow?
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