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Purgatory: An Objection Answered
The Catholic Thing ^ | October 26, 2012 | Francis J. Beckwith

Posted on 10/26/2012 2:28:43 PM PDT by NYer

In Catholic theology, Purgatory is a state (or a process, not necessarily a place) to which one’s soul travels if one has died in a state of grace, but nevertheless retains unremitted venial sins and certain ingrained bad habits and dispositions.

That is, Purgatory is a state for the redeemed who are not yet perfected. It is not a halfway house between Heaven and Hell. In Purgatory, you willingly undergo the quality and quantity of pain and suffering that is uniquely prepared for you so that you may enter Heaven unblemished.

But the dead in Purgatory do not go through this alone. Those of us who are living may provide assistance to them by offering prayers, alms, Masses, indulgences, etc. without, apparently, undermining the point of Purgatory. 

Some Protestants, even those who are Purgatory-friendly, have raised an objection to this account. They argue that, if undergoing the pains of Purgatory is necessary for a soul’s purification, then wouldn’t the assistance of the living impair that purification?

That is, if I fast and pray for the poor souls in Purgatory so that they may receive some relief from their suffering, how is that helping their purification if the process requires a particular amount of agony? 

The mistake the critic is making is that he is thinking of Purgatory in terms of distributive justice, that the assistance of the living is a rival to the performance of the deceased as if the entire enterprise were a zero-sum game.

He is, of course, not entirely to blame, since the Church and its theologians sometimes use the juridical language of satisfaction and debt to describe Purgatory, its punishments, and the role that the living play in diminishing those punishments.

Nevertheless, as a technical matter, the Church’s understanding of the justice exacted in Purgatory has always been teleological. “Justice,” writes St. Thomas Aquinas, “is so-called inasmuch as it implies a certain rectitude of order in the interior disposition of a man, in so far as what is highest in man is subject to God, and the inferior powers of the soul are subject to the superior.”


        Atonement from the Ship in Purgatory by Joseph Anton Koch, c. 1825

This is why two Church councils  Orange and Trent – employ the metaphor of the vine and the branches (John 15:1-17) in order to express the relationship between the members of Christ’s body, both living and dead, as they assist each other on the journey to Paradise. The Council of Trent affirms:

For since Christ Jesus Himself, as the head into the members and the vine into the branches, continually infuses strength into those justified, which strength always precedes, accompanies and follows their good works, and without which they could not in any manner be pleasing and meritorious before God, we must believe that nothing further is wanting to those justified to prevent them from being considered to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life and to have truly merited eternal life, to be obtained in its [due] time, provided they depart [this life] in grace….
So, however we may assist those in Purgatory – through fasting, praying, almsgiving, masses, indulgences, etc. – it is the consequence of cooperating grace, God working through us so that we may express our love, the virtue of charity, to the entirety of Christ’s body, both living and dead.

Perhaps a concrete example will help. Peter is a child growing up in the midst of a broken home. As a consequence, he develops vices that lead him to a life of crime and debauchery.

Suppose as a young adult he undergoes a conversion experience, though he finds it difficult to change his old habits. He often finds himself tempted to return to his former life, though he knows that it will destroy him.

Fed up with this internal struggle, he pursues a cloistered life of spiritual discipline that includes rigorous fasting, prayer, studying, meditation, devotion to the poor, and self-flagellation.

After many years, he has acquired a level of self-mastery that truly astounds him as well as the numerous friends he has made in the monastery. But then he has an epiphany that causes him to well up with tears of deep gratitude.

For he looks around and sees, really sees for the first time, what he had taken granted for the past decade: the wonderful architecture, the mountains of books, the opulent sanctuary, the scores of friends he now calls family, all expressions of the love and selfless giving that made his journey possible.

Although the donors, volunteers, and fellow monks that contributed to these magnificent surroundings are often described by others as having helped relieve the burdens of its residents, it would not be accurate to think of this assistance in merely distributive terms, and in fact Peter cannot bring himself to see it that way, or at least not anymore.

Yes, there was pain and suffering, all deserved, of course, and Peter knows that if not for this overabundance of charity his agony would have been worse. But he does not, indeed he cannot, view this charity as a mere amelioration of what could have been.

Rather, he sees his experience as an organic whole, ordered toward both his good and the good of those with whom he lives in fellowship. The charity and the suffering worked in concert for a proper end.

If you understand this story, you understand the Catholic account of Purgatory.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; purgatory
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Francis J. Beckwith is Professor of Philosophy and Church-State Studies at Baylor University, where he is also a Resident Fellow in the Institute for Studies of Religion. He is the author of Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic and one of four primary contributors to Journeys of Faith: Evangelicalism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Anglicanism.
1 posted on 10/26/2012 2:28:44 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
The Conversion of Dr. Francis Beckwith - Q&A The Early Church Fathers were Catholic - YouTube Video
2 posted on 10/26/2012 2:30:10 PM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer

Your kidding.....right?
Dear Lord Jesus


3 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:39 PM PDT by astratt7 (obama,muslim,politics)
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To: NYer

Amen. Thank you for posting this wonderful article.


4 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:45 PM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: NYer

I think we all have died, and are in purgatory right now.

It explains the ‘world’ around us much better.


5 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:49 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NYer

Where in the Holy Scriptures is Purgatory described, or mentioned?


6 posted on 10/26/2012 2:42:45 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: UCANSEE2

Sometimes I think this too..and how well we accept or fight the boulders placed in our path...some of us have a heavier load of troubles than others..Maybe we have been here before and if we have less troubles than others, maybe we have been better at perfecting ourselves...less griping and just taking on whatever hand is dealt us to the best of our ability..

Shortly after my mom’s death, my dad lost his leg. Yet he never said negative things, he didn’t complain, was not bitter that his “ golden years” have been trashed. When I asked him about this, how it is he was not angry with God, he said, “ No I am not angry with God. I see all of this as God’s way of fitting me for heaven.” I have not forgotten that though I don’t do quite as well has he did as I soldier on with my husband who has Alzheimer’s Disease along with other health issues and have no help from family as there is none nearby.


7 posted on 10/26/2012 2:46:27 PM PDT by celtic gal
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To: JimRed

You have hit the thumb on the nail. The conspicuous absence of this and other “traditions of men” promulgated by Rome is the reason the whole enterprise of Rome is a cult. The message of the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith is non-existent in the RCC.


8 posted on 10/26/2012 2:49:44 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: JimRed
Frankly, after forty plus yeaqrs studying the scriptures, I cannot find it int hem. I can however find Paul's description of the 'snatching away', so the following assertion seems a bit blasphemous:

"In Purgatory, you willingly undergo the quality and quantity of pain and suffering that is uniquely prepared for you so that you may enter Heaven unblemished."

What strikes me immediately is the inference that somehow the efficacy of Christ's blood is not quite enought to cleanse from all unrighteousness! I mean, if the saved have to go to purgatory in order to be 'finished' then God's perspective on Time is limited. Whereas, The God WQho Created all has a temporal perspective which includes all of time, past, present, and future, so the inference that somehow when one is saved God can only cleanse from past sin is, in my honest opinion, blasphemous! But of course, such teachings make the Catholic Church even more powerful, almost the 'thing' God has to have in order to be 'omni'.

But the Catholic Church has been adding stuff to the Bible teachings for twenty millenia, so this is just that much more dross to be burnt away at the final judgement, where every man's deeds will be tried as if by fire.

Oddly, I've never had a Catholic, priest or otherwise, able to explain how it is that those who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord will be'purgatoried' if they are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump? If believers need Catholic purgatory in order to be made perfect enough, how does that work at the last trump, when the dead in Christ bodies rise first then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up into the clouds to meet the Returning Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with The Lord???

9 posted on 10/26/2012 2:56:07 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: NYer

Thank you very much for posting this article.

I do understand the story and will work to understand it even better.


10 posted on 10/26/2012 2:57:44 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: UCANSEE2

Here’s a way to view it.

For the redeemed, the current earth is the closest to hell we are ever going to be.

For the lost, the current earth is the closest to heaven they are ever going to be.

Depends on your perspective.


11 posted on 10/26/2012 3:04:39 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: NYer
“....self-flagellation.”? Sounds like the old Baal priests.

Unchristian and according to Scripture of no benefit. One of those forms of a mock humility. (Col. 2:23)

But then so is the idea of purgatory, monasteries, priests, the lot.

12 posted on 10/26/2012 3:11:51 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: NYer

And some think Mormonism is a humorous religion..
The RCC has some very strange memes of it’s own..

Not any less humorus than the Mormon Angel “Moron-i”..
However the death cult of Islam takes the cake..

A brief visit to latin america will raise your eyebrows..
Extremely stange rites and practises of the RCC down there..

The Copts and Maronites have their surprises as well..


13 posted on 10/26/2012 3:16:54 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: MHGinTN
What strikes me immediately is the inference that somehow the efficacy of Christ's blood is not quite enought to cleanse from all unrighteousness!

It's quite enough. All Catholics know that and would never question it.

Here is a simple simile to help you understand Purgatory:

Think of Our Lord's Blood tragically flowing down the upright of the Cross, from the wounds in His Feet/Ankles.

When the Holy Blood comes to a prominent knothole, it flows around the edge, like an island diverts a stream. Even though The Lord is quite capable of causing His Blood to flow right through the obstruction, He allows it to be temporarily displaced on its way to the bottom of the Cross, for the useful work that can be completed during the diversion. That island is like Purgatory.

I am not a theologian or even rhetoritician, so I won't attempt to explain the concept further.

14 posted on 10/26/2012 3:38:18 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: NYer

Then a rich man can buy his express ticket through Purgatory by paying people left behind to perform penance, fasting, prayer, rosary, novenas and masses? Isn’t that like buying indulgences?


15 posted on 10/26/2012 3:38:59 PM PDT by Procyon (Decentralize, degovernmentalize, deregulate, demonopolize, decredentialize, disentitle.)
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To: Procyon

I suppose a rich man could pay people left behind to pray for him, but in reality all prayers to God should come from a true heart with humbleness, faith and love. Without that I don’t think prayers would really work. Afterall, God knows our heart’s real motivations and our true intentions.


16 posted on 10/26/2012 3:52:16 PM PDT by floridavoter2
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To: JimRed

Same place as the Internet and beer in a can.


17 posted on 10/26/2012 3:58:08 PM PDT by GalaxyAB
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To: MHGinTN

(...If believers need Catholic purgatory in order to be made perfect enough, how does that work at the last trump, when the dead in Christ bodies rise first then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up into the clouds to meet the Returning Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with The Lord??? )

I think those in Purgatory would still be “with the Lord”. Going through a purification process doesn’t mean the Lord isn’t with you. It’s a temporary place and God is with you there too as He was during your earthly time. My earthly parents may have punished me from time to time as a sort of discipline, but they were certainly still with me in every sense, and never abandoned me.


18 posted on 10/26/2012 3:59:24 PM PDT by floridavoter2
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: All
In Catholic theology, Purgatory is a state (or a process, not necessarily a place) to which one’s soul travels if one has died in a state of grace, but nevertheless retains unremitted venial sins and certain ingrained bad habits and dispositions. That is, Purgatory is a state for the redeemed who are not yet perfected. It is not a halfway house between Heaven and Hell. In Purgatory, you willingly undergo the quality and quantity of pain and suffering that is uniquely prepared for you so that you may enter Heaven unblemished....

....Some Protestants, even those who are Purgatory-friendly, have raised an objection to this account. They argue that, if undergoing the pains of Purgatory is necessary for a soul’s purification, then wouldn’t the assistance of the living impair that purification?

"Some Protestants" have raised this as an objection? Really? This third-rate argument? The biggest objection that I've ever heard raised (bigger even than "where's that in the Bible") and would like to see addressed is this one:

Which sins or offenses are not covered under Christ's shed blood, that cause post-death "pain and suffering" to be created for and endured by the presumptive purgatory denizen?

"Having read [Francis Beckwith]’s book, I am appalled at the blatant misrepresentation of both the Reformed teaching as well the teaching of Roman Catholicism. His lack of knowledge on historical issues is forgivable, given his ignorance, but to misrepresent and caricature the Reformed faith and to misrepresent the salvation teachings of Rome is simply irresponsible and dishonest..."
-- from the internet article Why Scripture and the Facts of History Compel Me, a Former Roman Catholic, to Remain a Committed Evangelical Protestant

20 posted on 10/26/2012 4:09:24 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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