[boatbums]

Please take the time to read the entire essay by Webster. In the effort of many Roman Catholics to persist in calling all Christians "back home" to Catholicsm, this work is very helpful in that it assures Christians, who know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, that they are already "home" and will spend eternity with him in Heaven.

[narses]

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[MarkBsnr]

The basic Roman interpretation of this passage is that the rock refers to Peter leading to the conclusion that the Church of Christ is built upon him personally. The keys represent his authority to rule the church and to define truth. And since it says that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church that she will be infallible in what she teaches and proclaims. Additionally, it is stated that in this passage Christ is establishing successors to Peter in the bishops of Rome who were given authority to rule the Church universal until He returns. Vatican One states that very the very beginning of the establishment of the Church this doctrine was understood and believed including Vatican One’s exegesis of the Petrine passages. But neither biblically nor historically in the practice of the church or in the patristic interpretation of the rock of Matthew 16:18 does one find an affirmation of these teachings. Vatican I is in fact guilty of contradicting the very principle it reconfirmed from the Council of Trent of never interpreting Scripture in any way contrary to the ‘unanimous consent of the fathers’. We will examine the biblical arguments and then the historical.

Wrong. The Fathers' interpretation is exactly the same as the interpretation today. The Bishop of Rome is an equal amongst the senior Bishops. The first among equals definition is yet to be determined in negotiations inside the Church.

[annalex]

Why Scripture...

LOL. This clown only cited Matthew 16 in all his verbosity, and that supports Catholicism.

[Revolting cat!]

Some people define themselves and their faith by their opposition to the Catholic Church. Cute, but no, thanks.

[ladyL]

I really have had to hold myself back but then I just couldn’t resist. This is all so much gobbly gook of man made religion and all it’s man made doctrines. Yahshua is going to laugh at all of you...The faith He left us was the one He created in the Torah. You all have missed it by a MILE! I’m not here to argue but let me just say to prove my point...When the new Jerusalem comes down there will be TWELVE GATES! and over each GATE the name of one of the TWELVE TRIBES. Now get this, THERE IS NO CHURCH GATE!!!!
That’s just the first piece of the puzzle, read your Bible, the rest of the pieces are in it. But you Romans and Evangelicals are way way off.

[knarf]

BUMP for the later time I will take to read.

[johngrace]

What a convoluted joker this Mr Webster.

Here is Augustine unequivocally writing about Peter as the Rock in context.

St. Augustine (410 A.D.): "These miserable wretches, refusing to acknowledge the Rock as Peter and to believe that the Church has received the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, have lost these very keys from their own hands." (Augustine, Christian Combat).

"...Why! a faggot that is cut from the vine retains its shape. But what use is that shape if it is not living from the root? Come, brother, if you wish to be engrafted in the vine. It is grievous when we see you thus lying cut off. Number the bishops from the See of Peter. And, in that order of fathers, see whom succeeded whom. This is the Rock which the proud gates of hades do not conquer. All who rejoice in peace, only judge truly." --St. Augustine, Psalmus Contra Pertem Donati.

[johngrace]

http://catholicbridge.com/downloads/Papacy_early_fathers_debate.pdf

[CynicalBear]

Mark for tomorrow

[vladimir998]

I remember back in the 1990s using Webster’s seriously flawed book The Church of Rome at the Bar of History (or whatever it was called) to help convert Protestants to the Catholic faith. It was fairly easy if they were willing to look at a few overheads. I used to type out his quotes from the Fathers and then photocopy them onto transparencies (ah, the days before LCD projectors). Then I would show them transparencies with the actual full quotes. Anti-Catholics have a nasty habit of hiding an awful lot of text in ellipses!!!

Most Protestants were shocked that a Protestant “historian” (Webster has a B.A. in history if I remember correctly) could be so dishonest.

[johngrace]

Mr Webster should stick to Fashion sense only.

[DennisR]

“this work is very helpful in that it assures Christians, who know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, that they are already “home” and will spend eternity with him in Heaven.”

Hm...do we need anything but scripture to tell us this?

[wardaddy]

If this is a rebuttal to the daily Catholic we are the only true church threads some post

Then God bless you

If there was ever a chance I would go Catholic these zealots are insuring it remains very sl

[Cvengr]

Good post.

It is a difficult topic to discuss, because we are so scarred in soulish thinking, instead of walking by the Spirit.

The common arguments posed to support the authority of the RCC are rational in nature instead of spiritual. Even Matt 16:17-18 is frequently interpreted rationally from flesh and blood, rather than by the call of the Father.

The definitions of Dogma, relate back to PISTIS, but when identified independent of faith through Christ, fall back to flesh and blood.

[verga]

Funny stuff thanks for posting, this just shows how intellectually bankrupt protestantism really is.

[piusv]

This is for anyone to answer (I’m not sure how to reply without using your name boatbums):

Why don’t Protestants ever look to the Orthodox? Although the Orthodox Church disagrees with the Catholic Church on some things they are the closest to the Catholic Church and have taught and believed many of the same things as the Catholic Church teaches and believes. Both were unified for hundreds of years!

So, when a Protestant decides that they are right, that their interpretation of Scripture is right, they are actually turning away from teachings that *all* Christians believed and followed for hundreds of years...not just the “dreaded” Catholic Church.

Or do Protestants even know about the Orthodox Church? The fact that these two denominations agree on so many things that the Protestants disagree with should make them stop and think about how “right” they are.

[ex-snook]

The author is searching for the truth. If he keeps it up, he will end up Catholic as others have who made the same journey. The ‘hounds of heaven’ are chasing him.

[Hot Tabasco]

Baptists, Calvinists, Catholics, Hindus, Lutherans, Methodists, Protestants, etc.....

Which one is the true church that an uncommitted person such as myself should join?

If only one is corrrect, then the others must be cults...........For the life of me, I can't figure out all the in fighting that goes on.......

[fabian]

Religion has mostly become one big mental merry go round. The fhu.com has the real prayer towards salvation which the church has utterly lost.

[Hoodat]

I always hear people speak of salvation in terms of what’s in it for them, but never in terms of what’s in it for God.