Posted on 09/21/2013 3:07:58 PM PDT by NYer
Duh.
Feast of the Holy Family of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph
Recovering God’s Plan for Marriage and Family: A Sermon on the Feast of the Holy Family
“Why were you looking for me?" (On the Feast of The Holy Family)
U.S. Postal Service Issues Holy Family Forever Stamp
On Prayer in the Life of the Holy Family
The Holy Family - held together by Love through all their problems [Ecumenical]
Feast of the Holy Family: The Christian Family is a Domestic Church
Chesterton on "The Human Family and the Holy Family"
Joseph, Mary and Jesus: A Model Family
ADVICE TO PARENTS by Saint Alphonsus Liguori (1696-1787)
The Holy Family
St. Joseph as Head of the Holy Family (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Feast of the Holy Family
Feast of the Holy Family (Dom Guéranger OSB)
The Feast of the Holy Family
The Holy Family vs. The Holy Innocents: A Christmas season reflection [Catholic Caucus]
Vatican creche to place Holy Family in Joseph's carpentry workshop
The Redemption and Protection of the Family [Feast of the Holy Family]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1606480/posts
Unraveling Jesus' mystery years in Egypt
Gaudi’s Church of the Holy Family to be ready for worship in 2008
Imitating the Holy Family; Four Traits that Make It Possible
Lots of Graphics: Post your favorite image of the St. Mary and Child, the Holy Family...
Oh well....let them yap or yip - God loves the Catholics as much as He does any of us who aren’t of that particular faith. However, he also wants people to come to the knowledge of the truth and if we step on a few toes in proclaiming the truth - so be it. While I don’t believe the Catholics are 100% wrong in all they teach and believe - there are many areas where they are in error.
But they *need* it to be true, lest the entire ecosystem of mariology should crumble into nothing, and they can’t have that.
I believe Mary only had one child, but perpetual virgin? i have no idea and its none of my business.
I have no problem with some one believing that the brothers of Jesus was Marys sons but don,t believe it should become Church doctrine.
I do not believe in building Church doctrine around the most popular assumptions because regardless of how sensible it may seem it could be wrong.
If it is something that is a matter of life or death then i would look at it a little different but which ever side is right on this issue would not change anything even if it could be proven beyond doubt.
Yes, I am a aware of the other less common usages, but with the copius reference to Jesus’ brothers (and sisters), one has to have an agenda to see it other than for what the authors of gospels, Paul and others (even Christ) state in plain greek.
Believe what you will, that is your freedom.
However, the one thing that must be common is that Christ is the Savior, and by and through Him, (His once for all acceptance of our sin and His being punished by God the Father even to death, and then being raised up again, forever paying the price of all man’s sin) there is no other way to find salvation and eternal life....
Best, & Peace.
But Luther, Zwingli and Calvin did!! Want to check again on these threads?
And also the fact that John gave his mother to John as his mother and her son, that alone would be absurd if Mary had other children who would have been old enough to care for their mother.
There are also scripture that indicate to me that the brothers may have been older instead of younger.
2 Now the Jew’s feast of tabernacles was at hand.
3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.
5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.a you
I wonder why one might believe that Mary only had one child. What purpose does it serve, when the Bible specifies brothers? And as far as inheritance goes (the legal aspect of his right to the line of David through his apparent father), doesn't his recognized right and familial authority become problematic if he was not the eldest son? Why aren't his brothers mentioned until later in the tale? Did they ALL go down to Egypt? Why weren't the elder sons mentioned on the trip to Bethlehem? There is no mention of anyone other than Joseph and Mary on that trip... Wouldn't Joseph have to present all his sons for the census?
I don't think the protestants hold it to be doctrine (or necessary) outside of the obvious defenses against the nearly absurd construction of the papists in their zeal to manufacture the conditions for the eternal virgin. It is incidental to belief, except in the bare fact that it follows nicely, and is thereby more reasonable to assert. Simple logic dictates.
I do not believe in building Church doctrine around the most popular assumptions because regardless of how sensible it may seem it could be wrong.
I can truly understand and encourage that statement.
If it is something that is a matter of life or death then i would look at it a little different but which ever side is right on this issue would not change anything even if it could be proven beyond doubt.
Oh, it would change everything if it fell against the papist way, which is why the Roman church is so adamant in their defenses. Without her eternal virginity and the magick surrounding it (see Ishtar, Isis), their goddess would fall to a position of merely mortal status. From the Protestant position, you are right, as it would change little if it were proven the other way, as Protestants appeal strictly to an higher authority anyway...
I think a valid question to ask Catholics about this point is, "If Mary can be shown to have had additional children with her husband, Joseph, after Jesus was born, would it effect their views about her and how would it?". In other words, how much a part of Mariology IS her perpetual virginity? If she can be shown to have had a normal, divinely-approved sexual relationship with her husband that produced other children, WHY would she be thought of or honored differently? How is the view of her changed?
That whole story stinks of fairy-tale.
Shown HOW? Delivery-room home videos?
WHY would she be thought of or honored differently? How is the view of her changed?
Why aren’t his brothers mentioned until later in the tale? Did they ALL go down to Egypt? Why weren’t the elder sons mentioned on the trip to Bethlehem? There is no mention of anyone other than Joseph and Mary on that trip... Wouldn’t Joseph have to present all his sons for the census?
I have a daughter who is familiar with the Jewish religion, in fact is a Jew and speaks Hebrew, she leans in favor of the same view you have but says she don,t know.
I am not trying to pick on Churches,( maybe religion ) but just saying the way it looks to me, in fact i some times wish i had not even read revelation.
The important part is that Mary and Joseph BOTH received messages from God via angels, and believed and obeyed.
I pray we all read God’s word to that very end!
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
So very true, dear ravenwolf! Thank you for your insights and that beautiful Scripture!
What do you do with Jesus' sisters???
What do you do with Jesus’ sisters???
He came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?". (Matt. 13:54-56)
"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him. Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.". (Mark 6:3,4)
Really doesn't matter how, the question was asked IF it can be shown Mary had other children after Jesus was born, with her husband Joseph, would or should it affect how she is honored and blessed by those who venerate her. In other words, what weight does Mary being a "perpetual" virgin have on why she is viewed as she is by Catholics, for example?
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