Are We Really Catholic Bashing?

reachingcatholics.org ^ | Unknown | Mike Gendron

[jodyel]

Are We Really Catholic Bashing? Mike Gendron

Throughout the last 13 years we have made the Roman Catholic Church our primary mission field. It has been our heart’s desire to see Roman Catholics embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as their all-sufficient Savior and enjoy the salvation He sovereignly secured for all who trust Him alone. Needless to say, we have received thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls from disgruntled, irate, annoyed, threatening or confused Catholics who tell us we are Catholic bashers and do not know anything about their religion. Some are zealous for God, but without biblical knowledge. Others have an unbending loyalty to the Pope and his teachings. We recently received a letter which covers many issues that are usually brought forth when Catholics are confronted with the biblical Gospel. Following is the letter and my response.

Dear Mr. Gendron,

I hope you can open your heart enough to truly hear what I’m about to tell you. First, you were not a "hard-core" Catholic. You are like a lot of people who were raised Catholic, who really did not know or understand their faith. I was like you at one time. I was raised Catholic, but did not practice my faith for years. But thanks to the grace of God, the Holy Spirit, and my devout wife, I rediscovered my Catholic faith as an adult. I love my faith and its glorious tradition handed down from Peter and Paul and the Apostles.

Regarding your belief in the Bible alone, who do you believe compiled the Bible? Before the Protestant Reformation, Catholics wrote the only Bibles in existence. The King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs. You see, Catholicism was the only game in town for over a thousand years until the Eastern Orthodox Church split with Rome and the Protestant Reformation further splintered Christians. The doctrines of Catholic faith have not significantly changed in 2000 years! Yet Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:2 those who "hold fast to traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter". In 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Paul says "Shun any brother who conducts himself not according to tradition they received from us." The Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture.

Does being born-again mean that it is open season on Catholics? Is Catholic bashing a requirement for being born-again? Why the constant attacks on Catholicism, an attack on those who receive Christ in the Eucharist on a weekly, or in my case, a daily basis? Do you really believe that if you’re Catholic you’re going to hell? When it was written that early Christians needed to be "born-again", the target audience was those who were not already baptized. Taken in that context, the need to be born-again does not apply to Catholics since Catholics have already been baptized, and are thus reborn.

Sincerely,

A Devout Catholic

Dear Devout Catholic,

I would like to address each one of your points. First, the Catholic Church was not even around to compile the Hebrews Scriptures. The Old Testament was closed 400 years before Christ’s life, death and resurrection. Furthermore, it was the apostles and the eyewitnesses to the events of Christ’s first coming who wrote the New Testament, not Catholics. The Roman Catholic Church did not exist in the first century. It can not be the one true church founded by Christ because it does not profess the faith of the apostles. Its teachings and traditions prove, beyond a doubt, that it has departed from the apostolic faith.

Jude warned the early church to contend for the faith against apostates. In verse 4 of his epistle, he wrote, "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord." Jude identifies the apostates by certain characteristics that resemble the Roman Catholic Church. Catholics deny Jesus as the only sovereign and Lord by supplanting His authority with an authority of their own. They have turned the grace of God into a commodity that can be bought, bartered or merited through indulgences and sacraments. They have perverted the Gospel of grace into a gospel of faith plus works. They have denied the supremacy and sovereignty of Christ and given His divine attributes and titles to Mary and the Pope. They have denied the sufficiency of the word and work of Christ. These are just some of the characteristics that would convict the Catholic Church of being apostate not apostolic.

The Roman Catholic Church declares itself to be the church that Jesus started 2000 years ago. It further pronounces that the church never changes its dogmatic teachings. With this in mind we, once again, can examine the teachings of the Catholic Church today and prove they do not resemble the first century church. Nowhere in the New Testament do we see:

• Priests offering sacrifices for sins • Indulgences remitting punishment for sins • Prayers for souls in purgatory • Church leaders forbidden to marry • Infallible men • Salvation dispensed through sacraments • Rosaries, scapulars, holy water, crucifixes & statues

You said "the King James Bible and all Protestant Bibles are based on the Catholic Bible, but many words were changed to justify Protestant beliefs." You are incorrect. The King James Bible was translated from the original languages of Scripture (Hebrew and Greek) while the first Roman Catholic Bible, known as the Douay-Rheims Bible was translated from Latin in the 16th century. Needless to say, a translation from the original languages would be much more accurate than a translation from a translation. Furthermore, it is not the King James Bible that departed from the original canon but the Roman Catholic Bible. In 1546 the Council of Trent added the Apocryphal books to the canon in an attempt to justify the doctrine of Purgatory. Jerome rejected them when he was translating the Bible into Latin in 450 because they were never part of the Hebrew canon. The texts include Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit, Sirach, Baruch, Maccabees I & II, Esdras I & II, additions to the Book of Esther, the Book of Daniel, and the Prayer of Manasseh.

Have you considered the references to tradition in the New Testament appear mostly as warnings against using them to nullify the word of God or to hold people captive (Mark 7:7-13; Col. 2:8-9). Only three times is tradition used in a positive sense. The few references you cited are exhortation for Christians to follow apostolic traditions. Please note the tense. Each reference is given in the past tense, i.e. the tradition which you were taught, (2 Thes. 2:15); which you have heard (2 Tim. 2:2); and, as I [Paul] delivered them to you (1 Cor. 11:2) Man’s tradition, which crept into the church after the apostles, is what we are to earnestly contend against (Jude 3). Followers of Jesus Christ are exhorted to earnestly contend for the faith which was delivered to the saints at the time the last apostle went to glory. "The faith" is made up of the Word of God and the traditions which "were taught" by the apostles. We must contend against other traditions because religious leaders and institutions can become corrupt (Mat. 23). The only assurance to genuine faith is from the objective, infallible Word of God (John 17:17).

You noted that the Gospel of John 21:25 states that not everything Jesus said was recorded in scripture. Do you know why John included what he did in his Gospel? He tells us. "These [things] have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31). Have you believed what John wrote? Unfortunately many Roman Catholics would have been indoctrinated to trust their clergy rather than what is written in the divinely inspired Scriptures. Consider what John has written about the Lord Jesus Christ:

• He saves sinners from condemnation (John 3:18, 5:24). • He came to give life to those who are spiritually dead in sin (John 14:6). • He showed the world the only way to the Father because sinners are lost (John 14:6). • He is the personification of truth. To avoid deception we must trust Him (John 14:6). • He testifies to the truth. Those who seek the truth listen to Him (John 18:37).

John also answers your questions on being born-again. He wrote: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13). Please note that those who are born-again "believe in His name." Is it possible for a 7-day old infant to believe or have faith in anything? Please also note that those who are born-again are born of God not of any human initiative. You can not be born-again because you were born into a Christian family, or because of self-will or because of your parents’ decision to baptize you. It is God who calls and draws those He has chosen (Eph. 1:4; John 6:44; Rom. 8:30). The Bible teaches that anyone (Catholic or non-Catholic) who has not been born-again will not enter the kingdom of God, but instead suffer everlasting torment in the eternal lake of fire.

I do not know why Catholics so often refer to us as Catholic bashers. If we really wanted to bash Catholics we would ignore them and let them march proudly towards an eternity without Christ. It is our love for Catholics and for our Lord that motivates us to be faithful to the great commission. It is our compassion for Catholics that persuades us to proclaim that Jesus Christ is sufficient to save sinners completely and forever, a doctrine that most Catholics deny. And finally it is our desire to exalt our Lord by exposing any teaching or tradition that robs Him of the glory, honor and praise that He alone deserves. It is my prayer that you will come to Jesus with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but your sins to the cross! Only then will you know the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.

In God’s Grace, Mike Gendron

[WXRGina]

Not the point of my post, of course, to FReeper Cynical Bear, as you know. But, no worries. Carry on.

[jodyel]

Thanks for your post, NKP.

[jodyel]

I see. Interesting.

Thanks, smvoice.

[jodyel]

Then please do go.

And thanks for posting as always.

[jodyel]

Thanks, salvation, for posting.

God bless you,
jodyel

[jodyel]

Thanks yet again.

[jodyel]

Correct, no religion.

Thanks for posting again.

[jodyel]

You are more than welcome, mlizzy, to debate and argue and defend as much as you like on anything I post. I just won’t be drawn into it anymore.

Go your way does not mean go away by any means. It just means you are free to believe as you like and I won’t try to dissuade you anymore.

I will wait on those the Spirit draws to me.

God bless you,
jodyel

[MHGinTN]

Selah!

[Nervous Tick]

>> I suspect that my Protestant brothers and sisters will have less need for Purgatory: those 1-hour sermons are punishment enough...

;-)

Hey, I LIKE good preaching!

By the way, I have found nearly all of Pope Francis’s sermons (or homilies or whatever y’all call them) to be profitable. And I absolutely LOVE (Archdiocese of Washington) Msgr. Charles Pope’s blog. Lots of good stuff there.

[boatbums]

It is sad that many Catholics here see any attempt to point out errors in the Roman Catholic faith as "bashing" or "anti-Catholic hatred" and "bigotry". Yet, they repeatedly post threads and comments that do the same things against those who are Christians but not Roman Catholic. I've been a member for eight years now and the SAME arguments keep cropping up from some of the SAME people that have been debated in the past.

As the rules of Open Religion Forum threads explain, it's a "town square" atmosphere and those who cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints should stay off the threads and stick to Caucus ones, instead. If people want to participate, they need to put on their big boy/girl knickers and respectfully discuss their views. Claiming "bashing" and "hatred" is just childish.

[boatbums]

Why do we only see Catholics getting worked up about threads that address errors in their religion - and whine about persecution and bashing being done to them - but not a peep from the same when a Catholic posts a thread calling all non-Catholic Christians bound for hell because they aren’t Catholic??? Quite the double standard being exhibited tonight!

[mlizzy]

Your indoctrination is thorough and you are convinced that everything they have told to is the only way that you can be saved...I have sent you Scriptures which directly refute your thoughts about saints and their abilities, and you come back with church dogma. That will send you straight to hell, yes.

Well, BS on that! I may serve years and years in purgatory, but I am not going to hell, unless I leave my Jesus; shame on you for even suggesting it. And I never suggested a non-Catholic couldn't be saved. Do you even understand the faith? What does Jesus mean when He says the following?

25* When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, “Who then can be saved?” 26* Jesus looked at them and said, “For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible.” --Matthew: 25,26

And I do not know why anyone would insist the saints are dead. They are alive [for an eternity] and they reside in heaven.

"Is it possible that there are souls who do not understand what the Blessed Eucharist is? Who are insensible to the Divine Presence.....to the mysterious and fervent effusions of the Sacred Heart of my Jesus? O Heart of Jesus! Heart of love!" "Yesterday, in the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament I felt myself burning so fiercely that I had to go away. I felt stunned that so many could stay so close to Jesus and not be reduced to ashes. I felt that I would be consumed. Jesus is such a sweet and irresistible Lover; how can one fail to love Him with one's whole heart and soul? How can one not wish to be wholly united in Him, and consumed in the flames of His holy love?" --St. Gemma Galgani

[mlizzy]

It is sad that many Catholics here see 'any' attempt to point out errors in the Roman Catholic faith as "bashing" or "anti-Catholic hatred"...If people want to participate, they need to put on their big boy/girl knickers...Claiming "bashing" and "hatred" is just childish.

As Mother Teresa once said [and it's a paraphrase], "The [Catholic] Church will always have its problems, but the faith, itself, is without flaw..." So maybe that's why some Catholics call certain dialogue [slamming the faith] as "bashing."

Personally, I find your commentary condescending to Catholics. And sometimes I wonder if you have a life [outside of Free Republic] that is filled with the beauty and love of the Christianity you keep espousing.

[WVKayaker]

Your indoctrination is thorough and you are convinced that everything they have told to is the only way that you can be saved...I have sent you Scriptures which directly refute your thoughts about saints and their abilities, and you come back with church dogma. That will send you straight to hell, yes. -wvk

You're right lizzy, and I apologize for that last remark as it's not up to me where someone ends up. However, you certainly cannot find any scriptural basis for the Catholic idea of purgatory. It just isn't there. As for your quote from Matthew (which didn't bother to say what chapter it would be found), what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Again, you place emphasis when you ask, do I understand “the faith”. But you obviously mean the organization referred to as the Roman Catholic Church where you place your faith. That is where the problem really begins.

You see, I do have faith, a profound faith in Jesus Christ and can know that God has declared me to be a sinner. I admit it, I am a sinner, just like Paul spoke of himself numerous times in various letters which we call it Epistles. But just like Paul, I'm not concerned in the least about my future place with God. I have complete assurance that even though I am a putrid man on this earth, that by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, through faith, God no longer sees my sin and has given me a total wash in redemption. I am fully cleansed from the bonds of sin and the law.

You can remain right where you are, and I will lose no sleep. I rest soundly, sleeping every night. I can do that because I believe in Jesus. You cannot provide Scripture that will justify everything your church claims. Even in your responses to me, you continue to spout church dogma and doctrine, and use Scripture without context. Your organization does a great job of indoctrination, and it starts from birth placing all of the legalistic requirements which will lead directly to the pits. I'm not saying there aren't some Roman Catholics who will be saved, but those that rely on your mother church and all of its misplaced ideas, unfounded in the word of God, should know that there is not going to be anybody that can pray them out of hell.

There is no purgatory. You either make it into heaven by the grace and mercy of God through faith in Christ Jesus, or you risk eternal separation. Eternity is a long, long, long, long, long, long time.

You may think that posting some woman's picture you including some nice words can help someone discover God's truth. If that woman is one of the Catholic saints, she's dead. That would be the last place Truth will be found. Look towards the first and most important place in God. Have a nice life. I am assured of my salvation and will continue to post truth against the heresies from Rome.

Romans 7: ...21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Romans 8: 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Paul

AMEN! -wvk

[WVKayaker]

Quite the double standard being exhibited tonight!

Quite Always the double standard being exhibited tonight!

There, fixed it for you.

if they didn't have a double standard, they would have no standards at all. They can only rely on what their church says. We who have learned to walk in the Spirit, really have it pretty easy. We don't have to let a bunch of candles or rattle a bunch of beads. We don't have to rely on some dead guy to try and bend God's ear.

We know that God is in control. We can rest and rely on the Holy Spirit to do his work. Our work is to believe, and the works that we provide when we offer the Scriptures, are just one of those fruits, specifically love. So, I can just offer encouragement, and tell you that we are not alone. These Catholics are still living under bondage. We are free, free at last!

Ehesians 6 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should

[jodyel]

Thank you, boatbums.

I certainly do not consider myself a bigot of any kind, and only desire them to come to Jesus.

The Spirit will move on those He will.

God bless,
jodyel

[jodyel]

Well, guys, we were all there once upon a time.

And I bet some of us fought tooth and nail before we were brought under submission to the Lord.

So, let us “count it all joy” and manifest the Spirit of the Lord to them and to others, keeping in mind who the real enemy is and that he has already been defeated.

Ephesians 6:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

God bless you all,
jodyel

[jodyel]

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0251.htm

The Necessity of the Spirit’s Work

[jodyel]

I don’t advocate either, BeadCounter.

I also don’t advocate ecumenism.

Thanks for posting.