REALLY, CATHOLICS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE POPE'S INTERVIEW?

Southern Orders ^ | March 6, 2014 | Fr. Allan J. McDonald

[NYer]

It continues to amaze me how some Catholics (not all) and usually supposedly traditional Catholics, continue to nitpick what Pope Francis says and are as manipulative of what he says as the progressive media that does the same thing.

This is what the Pope said about true marriage and civil unions yestersday:

Marriage is between a man and a woman. Secular states want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of cohabitation, pushed by the demand to regulate economic aspects between persons, such as ensuring health care. It is about pacts of cohabitating of various natures, of which I wouldn’t know how to list the different ways. One needs to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.

MY COMMENTS:

First the Holy Father makes clear that marriage is between a man and woman! Duh! But he knows the question is posed to him because there is great confusion in society today from those who are trying to redefine that which is already definitively defined and cannot be changed.

Then he says that secular states want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of cohabitation, pushed by the demand to regulate economic aspects between persons, such as ensuring health care. (And yes, this is part of the states responsibility, but this is far from the Pope endorsing cohabitation in the sense of a sexual relationship. And he acknowledges that there are many forms of cohabitation--a single son with an elderly mother and he cares for as a son cares for a mother. Can cohabitation have the same civil protection economically in terms of health benefits, social security and the like? It is not a sexual union or cohabitation.)

Keep in mind, that the Church is opposed to legal divorce. In Italy the Church fought tooth and nail to prevent legal divorces. Was this good? My Italian mother and Canadian father, both conservative Catholics told me no!

The problem in Italy prior the the Council was that men would leave their wives and children and cohabitate with another woman. He became a deadbeat dad, did not support his wife or children because the legal aspects of the separation had not been addressed in a court of law for the protection of persons, children and property.

Civil divorce protects the parties who are divorcing and their children and possessions. It is the duty of the state to do this and enforce it. Not the Church.  The Church can only state that the civil union of divorced and remarried Catholics is not recognized by the  Church and that the initial marriage is the valid one until proven otherwise in an ecclesiastical court of law. 

So the Church, in terms of divorce and remarried couples, acknowledges today (not in the past) the need for civil unions to be regulated by the state to protect people and their civil rights. The Church does not acknowledge these civil unions as marriage and in fact says there is a public sin involved which prevents these couples from receiving Holy Communion if the union is sexual in nature, rather than fraternal.

[Alex Murphy]

The priest is long dead but, through the cross from his rosary, the mercy he showed continues through the pope. To honor the memory of the deceased is wrong? When my grandmother died, just before they closed the lid on her coffin, I took her rosary.

Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
-- Romans 1:32

[CynicalBear]

>>He removed only the crucifix from the rosary<<

Well!!! There you have it!!! It was only part of the rosary so all is fine!!!

Am I living in an alternate universe? These guys justify the Pope stealing because it was only a part? This is totally bizarre! One doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry. These people are justifying theft by the guy who they might rely on to speak for God!!

What happened to "thou shalt not steal"?

[redleghunter]

The proper thing to do is to sort out the items before the person is laid out. Once the person is laid out what is in the casket remains in the casket. Anyone who has worked weekends in a funeral home knows that.

[Alex Murphy]

The proper thing to do is to sort out the items before the person is laid out. Once the person is laid out what is in the casket remains in the casket. Anyone who has worked weekends in a funeral home knows that.

Some people just view the casket as a piñata, I guess.

[metmom]

Well of course someone else who removes items from a casket is going to defend someone else who did it.

I suppose that the best that can be said is that the person is not a hypocrite.

[CynicalBear]

It’s gotten bizarre I’m telling ya.

[steve86]

In distrusting the pope, you demonstrate a distrust for Christ's promise.

Did Christ promise there could never be a bad pope? I missed that. In fact, he couldn't have said it as it was falsified long ago.

The Bad Popes is a 1969 book by E. R. Chamberlin documenting the lives of eight of the most controversial popes (papal years in parentheses):

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

And (we hope) Pope Francis is not on a par with any of these precedents, but he does have a way of letting the devil run wild with his verbal ambiguities and soft-on-sinfulness manner.

[steve86]

When my grandmother died, just before they closed the lid on her coffin, I took her rosary.

That doesn't bother me she she was family but I think you are supposed to assign the effects beforehand.

[verga]

The haters are going to hate. You can tell who they are by the responses.

[Heart-Rest]

"This post is sourced to a "traditional Catholic" priest .. not CNN or the New York Times or any other secular media. What disturbs me most about certain catholic freepers, is their nitpicking every word spoken by Pope Francis and their willingness to, not only accept, but also believe secular media reporting because it supports their distrust for this pope. It is even more disheartening to witness this shameless display at the opening of Lent, a season for repentance, self-denial and prayer in preparation for Easter. As catholics, you know full well the promise made by our Lord, that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. In distrusting the pope, you demonstrate a distrust for Christ's promise."

" We have enough problems battling secularism, narcissism, relativism and all the other "isms". The Catholic Church is under attack from every direction. The Holy Father has addressed a Letter to Families, asking for their prayers. Here is an opportunity to devote the next 39 days, as a family, to pray for Pope Francis. It is also a good time to examine and resolve the motives that drive your distrust for him. I wish you all a Blessed Lent."

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hey, my friend, since your post #6 here was directed to a very small subset of your Catholic "Ping" list, and I happen to be on this small subset for this post #6 for some reason, I'm wondering if this post #6 you made here was directed at me because of some specific post I had made somewhere earlier with which you disagreed for some reason.    Is it (and, if so, could you please direct me to the post I made which triggered this directed response)?    Thanks.

[redleghunter]

It’s not hating. I had various odd jobs as a young teen. One job was to deliver flowers to funeral homes and Catholic churches. I also helped my dad and his friend on high demand weekends at funeral homes and at the cemetery. I learned early the proper etiquette for mostly Catholic funerals and wakes. Did some Greek Orthodox and Jewish funerals as well given the demographics. I went through the proper handling of the deceased from bow to stern when one of my father’s fellow Knights of Columbus passed away. What goes in the casket stays in the casket...period.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

1)As catholics, you know full well the promise made by our Lord, that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church.

2) In distrusting the pope, you demonstrate a distrust for Christ's promise.

On 1) we are in full agreement. On 2) we'll just have to agree to disagree. As such, I won't judge you if you don't judge me, OK?

Because, "Who are [we] to judge?"

[daniel1212]

I am so glad for Pope Francis he has the FR RF in his hip pocket making sure he is ‘clearly understood.’

While the media has taken him out of context, in the latest case ("Pope Suggests Support For Civil Unions," based on a very general statement about the need to evaluate different cases of living arrangements as regards things like health care), but engaging in less extrapolation RCs have used in trying wrest support from Scripture for traditions of men.

And some conservative RCs (CRCs) are upset at other RCs taking them at face value, yet they too often want to dismiss too much of what is reported, and rationalize clear examples of the pope acting or sounding rather unconservative.

Pope Francis’s honors Nelson Madela: “Paying tribute to the steadfast commitment shown by Nelson Mandela in promoting the human dignity of all the nation’s citizens and in forging a new South Africa built on the firm foundations of non-violence, reconciliation and truth, I pray that the late President’s example will inspire generations of South Africans to put justice and the common good at the forefront of their political aspirations. ” - http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2013/12/06/0813/01830.html

Yet Mandela was very proabortion and a member of the communist party, and had a dirty track record: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3099575/posts. And Pro-life leaders urge caution, while Pope, Cardinal Dolan praise controversial Nelson Mandela: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-leaders-urge-caution-while-pope-and-bishops-praise-controversial-n

Yet this was not the first time a pope met Mandela and apparently commended him, according to http://www.romereports.com/pg154998-nelson-mandela-met-twice-with-brother-john-paul-ii-pope-sends-condolences-en, Nelson Mandela met three times with 'brother' John Paul II.

Then CRCs had this to explain:

("standing with the poor: http://nation.time.com/2013/11/15/the-real-reason-pope-francis-posed-with-anti-fracking-activists/)

And then you have other statements from a while back: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3073740/posts?page=31#31

[daniel1212]

At least you were not called “Romophobic, even though the “hate” allegation is also a tactic of the activists for Sodom.

[Gamecock]

##What happened to “thou shalt not steal”?##

Same crowd that will tell you an anullment is not a divorce.

[Alex Murphy]

##What happened to “thou shalt not steal”?##
Same crowd that will tell you an anullment is not a divorce.

The very same crowd that will tell you it's not really bread.

"It looks like a bread wafer, it tastes like a bread wafer, but it isn't a bread wafer."

[boatbums]

I wonder if Pope Francis ever got in touch with the family of the priest to let them know he had taken the crucifix and not someone else? That would have been the way to proceed instead of retelling the event years later and admitting to being a thief. I'm sure the family would be delighted to know he had the thing and used it in such a way that he thinks would honor the dead priest.

I'll make sure to let my family know to take my two gold tooth crowns before I'm "taken care of" and not leave them to grave robbers. ;o)

[metmom]

It is even more disheartening to witness this shameless display at the opening of Lent, a season for repentance, self-denial and prayer in preparation for Easter. As catholics, you know full well the promise made by our Lord, that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church.

Lent is for Catholics. Nobody else is bound by your traditions.

Additionally, real Christians don't need a special *season* for repentance and prayer. It should be part of the normal everyday experience of a follower of Christ.

In distrusting the pope, you demonstrate a distrust for Christ's promise.

Distrusting a pope who has proven himself untrustworthy by being a grave robber? Can you imagine? The gall of them.

[metmom]

Every year at lent and advent the secular media tries to find ways to stir the pot and get Catholics and other Christians all jacked up over nothing.

So robbing the dead is *nothing* in your book?

Why am I not surprised?

It appears that there is no evil that a Catholic can perpetrate that some other Catholic will not defend and use to attack a non-Catholic over when their hypocrisy and sin is pointed out.

[metmom]

So you approve of lifting the rosary of a dead person just before the casket is closed, too?

Why do Catholics support robbing the dead?