Rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem?

The Deseret News ^ | May 3, 2014 | William Hamblin and Daniel Peterson

[2ndDivisionVet]

The dramatic recent collapse of the Arab-Israeli peace talks and the ongoing political turmoil involving the Temple Mount have again focused world attention on the centuries-old struggle for that sacred site. Since antiquity, the roughly 37 acres of the Temple Mount and its immediate surroundings have frequently been the focus of interreligious strife.

The destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 was a devastating event in the history of Judaism. It served as a transforming catalyst in both the origins of Christianity and the transition of Israelite religion from a priestly sacrifice-centered system to the legalistic text-centered religion of rabbinic Judaism as we know it today. Ever since that catastrophic year, many Jews have longed for the restoration of their lost temple.

During the centuries after its destruction, Jews made three major attempts to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem. The first was the messianic movement of Shimon Bar Kokhba from A.D. 132-135. His efforts were cut short by the overwhelming victory of the Roman emperor Hadrian, who altogether expelled the Jews from Jerusalem and built a temple to Jupiter on the site of the ancient house of the Lord....

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>The 3rd Temple is a physical temple...It is not Jesus Christ...It is Solomon’s Temple, rebuilt...With the throne of David...<<<

Where can I find the third temple and a future, earthly throne of David in the scriptures. Something that significant should have many clear references.

Philip

[Roman_War_Criminal]

If you’re not willing to read and actually study scripture then there’s not point in us even discussing this.

When did Damascus cease to become a city and get obliterated?

Has an A/C and his false prophet ever demanded worship and kill everybody he possibly could who doesn’t take his mark worldwide?

Has the 2 million man army written about in Revelation 9:16 ever come to take on Israel?

There’s not one shred of evidence that these have come to pass. Your theories are flawed. Antiochus IV was never even close to what the real deal will ever be—not even by a long shot.

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Right....
Damascus is still very much alive and populated.

17 A prophecy against Damascus:

“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.”

That means it will no longer be inhabited...ever.

What’s so hard to understand about that?

[Roman_War_Criminal]

This is about as clear as it can get.

Note—Jesus said these words and your “A/C” Antiochus IV Epiphanes was already dead by two centuries when this was spoken.

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.”

Note: The Holy Place is the Temple (3rd Temple).

I’m not Catholic, so that’s probably where we have just have to agree to disagree.

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Daniel 12:1-2 refers to the tribulation when it states “and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since”.

Michael is the designated Protector of Isreal, he always has been and always will be (even now).

IMO the part where it states, “and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book”. This refers to the Final White Throne Judgement.

The resurrection hasn’t happened yet—if it has it was never documented and you, me and everybody else living since that event is SOL.

Since you think Prophecy has already been fufilled, tell me why this hasn’t Isaiah 11 happened yet?

[wafflehouse]

any building purporting to be the temple of God, built by people who reject Jesus as Messiah CAN NOT BE THE TEMPLE OF GOD.

you are completely wrong
jesus was a JEW. why do jews reject jesus?
because CHRISTIANS have made him into someone else

[wafflehouse]

All your arguments assume that chrstianity is true and that the "new testament" is genuine Divine revelation.

You probably have never even considered this, but neither of these is self-evident.

"Christianity" has fallen in the same way the Jews fell.
the Jews did not recognize their messiah, because he did not fit their pre-existing expectations.
Jesus was a JEW, so Christians have made him into someone else. They also no longer know their messiah.

the "New Testament" is only commentary on the Torah. the Torah is the most important. Jesus said, if you dont believe Moses, you will not believe me.

[wafflehouse]

he had rejected Israel and their religion

do you know what 'forever' means? does God break his promises?

if so, why do you follow a God that cannot keep his promises?

[lbryce]

:-)

[lbryce]

The Jews didn’t, don’t accept the New Testament Jesus had made known to the world and have not, did not acknowledge him as Messiah, Savior. Therefore, from the Jewish perspective the quotations you utilize as quoted in the New Testament in nullifying God’s relationship with the Jewish people and that of the Temple as being sole heirloom of the Jewish people have no bearing on the way the Jewish people see their destiny.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

“because CHRISTIANS have made him into someone else”

that’s very interesting, can you elaborate on who Christians have made Jesus into? who is Jesus to you?

[lbryce]

Now, that is quite hilarious.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>If you’re not willing to read and actually study scripture then there’s not point in us even discussing this.<<<

I agree.

>>>When did Damascus cease to become a city and get obliterated?<<<

If there is "no point in us even discussing this," then why are you discussing this? Why are you asking me this question?

I know why. You are not sure your interpretation of the prophecy of Damascus is accurate; and you would be correct (at least on that point.) This is the passage in question from Isaiah on the burden of Damascus:

    "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." (Isa 17:1 KJV)

How long was it taken away from being a city? Forever? I don't think so. If you think otherwise, then you must prove your interpretation with scripture.

This was Isaiah on Judah under King Hezekiah:

    "Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps." (Isa 37:26)

    "Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store until this day, shall be carried to Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the Lord." (Isa 39:8 KJV)

Was Jerusalem "taken away from being a city, forever?" No.

Personally, I think you have been reading too much into the scripture; or you have been bamboozled by charlatans like John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Ingerson Scofield.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Has an A/C and his false prophet ever demanded worship and kill everybody he possibly could who doesn’t take his mark worldwide?<<<

I don't recall reading anything like that in the scripture; nor do I recall reading about an Antichrist, other than in John's epistles in the mid-first century. Would you please cite Chapter and Verse references the next time you make such didactic claims? Thanks.

>>>Has the 2 million man army written about in Revelation 9:16 ever come to take on Israel?<<<

Are you claiming the Revelation must be interpreted literally according to the KJV 1611 translators? What does the original Greek words say? The Greek word for a "thousand" could be an indefinite number. Strong's translation for a thousand in Revelation 9:16 reads:

   "a ten-thousand; by extension a “myriad” or indefinite number"

Since you appear to be a "literalist," please explain this:

   "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up." (Rev 8:7 KJV)

If that verse was literal, then how did any grazing animal survive after a few days with no grass. And if no grazing animals survived, then what was the point of this verse?

   "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." (Rev 8:10-11 KJV)

Why not simply let them die from the absence of meat?

>>>There’s not one shred of evidence that these have come to pass. Your theories are flawed. Antiochus IV was never even close to what the real deal will ever be—not even by a long shot.<<<

Many, many commentators disagree with you, and whoever you are defending. So I must demand that you prove it! Your pretense is far from convincing. I'll bet you cannot prove it.

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>17 A prophecy against Damascus: “See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins.” That means it will no longer be inhabited...ever. What’s so hard to understand about that?<<<

No offense, but I do not believe your interpretation. Where does it say Damascus will no longer be inhabited?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>This is about as clear as it can get. Note—Jesus said these words and your “A/C” Antiochus IV Epiphanes was already dead by two centuries when this was spoken.<<<

Of course you are only assuming that Jesus was not referring to the A/D spoken of in Daniel 12, since you have no proof, whatsoever. I believe it is very clear that Jesus was referring to a past fulfillment. Why do you believe otherwise? Do you have scripture supporting your interpretation that you are hiding from us? If so, we would be appreciate you revealing it.

>>>Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.”<<<

I have read that passage many times, along with all other Olivet Discourse passages in Mark and Luke.

>>>Note: The Holy Place is the Temple (3rd Temple).<<<

You are spiritualizing the scriptures. There is no mention, whatsoever, of a third temple, in either the old or new testaments; and most certainly not in the Olivet Discourse.

>>>I’m not Catholic, so that’s probably where we have just have to agree to disagree.<<<

Neither am I a catholic, nor will I ever be a catholic. What is the point of that statement? Are you trying to cast dispersions in an attempt to discredit me?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Daniel 12:1-2 refers to the tribulation when it states “and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since”.<<<

Yes. That happened in the generation of those who heard the gospel directly from Jesus, as he declared to his disciples:

   "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Mat 24:21 KJV)

The great tribulation occurred on or about AD 66-70, as declared by Jesus, just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies.

>>>Michael is the designated Protector of Isreal, he always has been and always will be (even now).<<<

Please cite scriptural references for your claims.

>>IMO the part where it states, “and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book”. This refers to the Final White Throne Judgement.<<<

So, you believe that in the "Final White Throne Judgement," some will receive eternal life, and some will not? That is most interesting, coming from a dispensationalist.

>>>The resurrection hasn’t happened yet—if it has it was never documented and you, me and everybody else living since that event is SOL.<<<

Which resurrection has not happened yet? Do you believe there is only one resurrection?

>>>Since you think Prophecy has already been fufilled, tell me why this hasn’t Isaiah 11 happened yet?<<<

When did I say that "prophecy has already been fulfilled?" Prophecy has been fulfilled since the days of Noah, maybe before. And there is some prophecy in Rev 20 that must be fulfilled (the defeat of Satan.) What is your point?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>do you know what 'forever' means? <<<

Of course I do. Do you believe this?

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Ecc 1:4 KJV)

You do believe that, don’t you?

>>>does God break his promises?<<<

Nope. Only men break promises, like the children of Israel did on many occasions. All of God's promises were conditional. Only a foolish God would give unconditional promises to evil men. You don’t think God is foolish, do you?

>>>if so, why do you follow a God that cannot keep his promises?<<<

That is a rhetorical question. God always keeps his promises, and God is always right! Will you please provide us with scripture that demonstrates that God makes foolish promises? Or, that God has made unconditional promises that he has not fulfilled?

Philip

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>The Jews didn’t, don’t accept the New Testament Jesus had made known to the world and have not, did not acknowledge him as Messiah, Savior. Therefore, from the Jewish perspective the quotations you utilize as quoted in the New Testament in nullifying God’s relationship with the Jewish people and that of the Temple as being sole heirloom of the Jewish people have no bearing on the way the Jewish people see their destiny.<<<

Sadly, you are correct. I pray that one day they emerge from darkness into the wonderful light of Jesus Christ.

Philip